this is the end of string djf more on How bizarre can it get?? We're about to find out...

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Gordon C. Thomasson, Ph.D." <gthomas1 () stny rr com>
Date: September 30, 2004 1:15:49 AM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] more on How bizarre can it get?? We're about to find 
out...

As a historian who has studied not just the NRA's systematic 
false-reading/
 propaganda of/about the Second Amendment (which their lawyers have 
been very
 careful to keep out of the federal courts), but the debates of the 
First Congress that
 created the Bill of Rights, the Second absolutely does not protect 
private gun ownership. 
 The Founding Fathers' use of the word militia is intentional and was 
well considered. 
 Any contrary argument is absolutely ahistorical and based on either 
ignorance, studied
 ignorance, or lying.

 Secondly, it AIN'T just about bayonet lugs or even banana magazines.  
And those are not
 the main concern the many police lobbies that supported the ban.  If 
you have spent any
 time around the gun world at all, you have seen kits sold for almost 
every "legal" assault
 weapon that converts it from semi-automatic to fully automatic.  If 
you haven't seen them
 you either have no knowledge, are lying, or look too much like a cop. 

 Years ago I saw kits that people had obtained through the mail (M-1 
carbines, 1960s;
 AK47s, 1970s).  I have seen kits for many other weapons since then, 
just walking
 around pretending to mind my own business, listening and watching at 
gun shows
 and swap meets.  It has always been a barely under-the-counter trade.  
It is practiced
 in much the same way that crocks for brewing beer were sold during 
prohibition (and
 you can still find these at antique shows).   The pale yellowish-white 
crocks had lettered
 on the side a "Notice" that federal law prohibited combining the 
below-listed ingredients
 (a recipe for beer) in that crock, allowing it to ferment, etc.

 The ATF Raid on David Koresh (which would not have been a debacle if a 
"journalist" had
 not called Koresh and warned him the Feds were coming, for which he 
absolutely should
 have been tried as an accessory before-the-fact to murder),  was fully 
justified legally in that
 Koresh had obtained assault-type weapons and fully automatic 
conversion kits, and had,
 according to witness-testimony, converted the weapons, and thus would, 
without any
 question be in violation of federal law.  ATF's last initial, "F", 
stands for firearms, and they
 have the responsibility to enforce the laws against automatic 
weapons.  ATF men were
 murdered by Koresh in the line of duty.  Later "mistakes" by the FBI 
and/or suicide by
 Koresh are ABSOLUTELY irrelevant to the fact that ATF had probable 
cause and 
 legal obligation to do what they did, and that Koresh was in blatant 
violation of the law..

 FULL DISCLOSURE:  I am a pacifist  and NOT  a gun-owner.  I became a 
pacifist
 in the 1960s after a friend employed by the FBI took me shooting and I 
drew down
 on a mannequin but suddenly knew nothing in the world could move me to 
pull the trigger
 in real life, though I had fired many weapons at bulls-eye paper 
targets and clay pigeons
 before that.  My very best friend, on the other hand, has several 
Glocks, knows how
 to use them, and carries them daily in his employment.

 Gordon C. Thomasson, Ph.D.
 World History Faculty
 Broome Community College (SUNY)

 David Farber wrote:



 Begin forwarded message:

 From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
 Date: September 29, 2004 2:28:55 PM EDT
 To: dave () farber net
 Cc: mo () ccr org
 Subject: Re: [IP] How bizarre can it get?? We're about to find out...

 Mike O'Dell wrote:

 if INDUCE is passed into law, we'll have the curious situation
 where it will be illegal to share a file or (possibly) own an iPod,
 but legal to own a military assault rifle.
 I admit to not tracking the statistics closely,
 but I didn't realize that so many people were being killed with iPods.


 I agree with Mike that the Induce Act is hardly a terrific idea, but 
I  think he's misstating a few points along the way.

 First, the current draft of the Induce Act circulated last Friday 
only  deals with "manufacturing, offering to the public, providing, or  
otherwise trafficking in any product or service" -- something that  
wouldn't affect you if you already own an iPod or any other product.  
Induce targets manufacturers, not end users. You just might not be 
able  to buy a replacement, that's all. :)

 Second, Induce doesn't affect whether sharing an individual file is  
legal or not. Mike may be thinking of other bills, like one the House  
approved yesterday, that do:
 http://news.com.com/House+votes+to+target+P2P+pirates/2100-1028_3 
-5387682.html

 Third, the law against so-called "assault weapons" is no more 
properly  named than laws like the Communications Decency Act or the 
Patriot Act.  Guns targeted by the ban are not more powerful or capable 
of more rapid  fire than those that remain legal. The law bans certain 
firearms  because of politically incorrect cosmetic features like 
bayonet lugs  (random bayonetting of innocents is, you know, a national 
plague).

 Fourth, the right to "keep" firearms is enshrined in the Bill of 
Rights  while the right to own an iPod is not as constitutionally 
explicit.  Like other rights in the BoR, the Second Amendment protects 
an  individual right to own firearms (arguably) similar to whatever is  
being used in the military. See Prof. Eugene Volokh's testimony to  
Congress:
 http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~volokh/beararms/testimon.htm
 "The Second Amendment does indeed secure an individual right to keep  
and bear arms."

 Best,
 Declan

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