More on: RE: Australia (maybe a good place to move to? djf} more on you can choose a paper ballot!!

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Ian Peter <ian.peter () ianpeter com>
Date: November 1, 2004 4:00:28 PM EST
To: dave () farber net
Subject: More on: RE: [IP] Australia (maybe a good place to move to? 
djf} more on you can choose a paper ballot!!

Dave,

Before everyone packs their bags and moves to Australia..

US might still get the fresh change so many people are looking
for, if enough people get out of bed and vote for what they
believe in.

Australia had an election a few weeks ago, and didn't get a
change of government at all. Instead, the Iraq war supporting
incumbents increased their majority.

So if you move to Australia, expect that you will have

* conservative government
* US copyright laws, once the Free Trade Agreement is adopted
with the government's new majority in both houses
* media campaigns and media monopolies determining electoral
thinking
* marginal voter focus-group based presentations that determine
the campaign issues
* support for the war on terror in the form of policies that
encourage terrorism
* powerful apathy
* successful fear campaigns.

I don't wish it on you! But then, you have all that already.

When the dust settles, and whatever the result, maybe we should
look at the appropriateness in an Internet age and a mass media
age of the current form of democratic participation. Easily
manipulatable one-off participation every few years is a long way
from the Athenian democratic vision.

We now have the capabilities for greater levels of participation
and more suitable forms of involvement. But can the current
systems produce politicians and governments who really believe in
democracy enough to want to experiment with greater involvement?




Ian Peter
Senior Partner
Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd
P.O. Box 10670 Adelaide St
Brisbane 4000 Australia
Tel (617) 3870 1181
Fax (617) 3105 7404
Mobile (614) 1966 7772
www.ianpeter.com
www.nethistory.info
www.internetmark2.org (Internet Analysis Report - 2004 now
available)
www.theinternettapes.com (check out the new Internet history
Audio CD and Ebook at this site)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ip () v2 listbox com
> [mailto:owner-ip () v2 listbox com] On Behalf Of David Farber
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 November 2004 2:34 AM
> To: Ip
> Subject: [IP] Australia (maybe a good place to move to? djf}
> more on you can choose a paper ballot!!
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Andrew Pam <xanni () glasswings com au>
> Date: November 1, 2004 8:34:49 AM EST
> To: David Farber <dave () farber net>
> Cc: Einar Stefferud <stef () Thor nma com>
> Subject: Re: [IP] more on you can choose a paper ballot!!
>
> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 07:14:12AM -0500, Dave Farber wrote:
> > From: Einar Stefferud <stef () Thor nma com>
> > Date: October 31, 2004 4:42:41 PM EST
> > To: David Farber <dave () farber net>
> > Subject: Re: [IP] you can choose a paper ballot!!
> >
> > Has everyone forgotten how easy it is to cancel a paper
ballot and
> > turn it into an OVERVOTE for a given ballot choice?
> >
> > Paper ballots have been used to commit fraud ever since the
> > Australians invented the so called secret ballot system
> based on paper.
> > All that is needed is for someone/anyone with access to
overvote a
> > ballot by adding another X so that the ballot shows votes for
two
> > candidates for the same office.  Essentially the same thing
as
> > punching out an extra CHAD for the same voter choice.
>
> Note that in Australia any candidate can nominate
> "scrutineers" at each polling place, who are strictly
> forbidden by law from advocating candidates or making any
> physical contact with the ballots but may observe both the
> voting and the counting process as closely as they desire.
> Any irregularities in the voting not rectified on demand can
> then be brought to the attention of the Australian Electoral
> Commission officials and if necessary the media.
>
> I have regularly acted as a scrutineer and there will
> typically be at least one from each major party and some from
> minor parties at each polling booth, as a result of which
> Australians have very high confidence in the reliability and
> accuracy of their system - so much so that in one historical
> election the national result was reliably decided by a margin
> of eleven votes!
>
> I am not aware of any documented instances of overvoting in
> Australia in the last decades.
>
> More information here:
> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/
> The%20Australian%20electoral%20system
>
> Regards,
>         Andrew Pam
> --
> mailto:xanni () xanadu net                         Andrew Pam
> http://www.xanadu.com.au/                       Chief
> Scientist, Xanadu
> http://www.glasswings.com.au/                   Partner, Glass
Wings
> http://www.sericyb.com.au/                      Manager,
Serious
> Cybernetics
>
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