re Carmichael on engineering in government.

[Dave Farber <dave () farber net>]

------ Forwarded Message
From: "Munro, Neil" <nmunro () nationaljournal com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:51:53 -0500
To: "'dave () farber net'" <dave () farber net>
Subject: re Carmichael on engineering in government.



    From Carmichael; "Blending an engineering approach with the humane
disciplines of politics, governance and social strategy looks like a part of
our culture we forgot to create."

    We tried. It was called socialism, communism, fascism, Mao-ism, and
authoritarianism. Killed a bunch of people, perhaps 150 million. In living
mememory, too. You can find survivors in Eastern Europe, China and Israel.
If you want more information, check google for "USSR & Gosplan," "Chairman
Mao & five year plans" and "Marx & science."

    One alternative, still being tested in the United States, started in
1776. That alternative combines skepticism about human nature and its
rationality, recognition of rights granted by (and revocable only by) a
deity, as well as extensive distribution of power among inefficient,
competing but hopefully balanced factions. Initial reports are looking good,
but we'll have to wait a few hundred more years for the final grades.

    - Neil  








-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber [mailto:farber () tmail com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:40 PM
To: Ip ip
Subject: [IP] more on method


-----Original Message-----
From: Douglass Carmichael <doug () bigmindmedia com>
To: Dave@Farber. Net <dave () farber net>
Subject: more on method
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:34:56 -0800

More on method.

Here is the NYT list of Blair's six points

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/12/international/europe/12CND-LIST.html >


quoting

List of Demands
BY THE NEW YORK TIMES


LONDON, March 12 - Following is an unofficial list of six British
demands for Saddam Hussein, according to British officials:
Mr. Hussein must admit on Iraqi television that he possesses weapons
of
mass destruction and will now disarm fully.
He will account for and destroy stocks of anthrax and other biological
and chemical weapons.
Mr. Hussein will permit 30 scientists and their families to fly to
Cyprus for interrogation by United Nations weapons inspectors.
He will admit to possession of an unmanned drone aircraft discovered
by
inspectors.
He will promise to destroy mobile production facilities for biological
weapons.
Mr. Hussein will pledge to complete the destruction of all unlawful
missiles.

dc: this list, after all said so far, seems weak. Is that really all
there is?

To be a bit facetious, it seems to come down to a model airplane. What
would Saddam actually say? It is not clear yet that he actually has
weapons of mass destruction. On the missiles, his argument that,
loaded,
they are within specified limits, is reasonable. Remember, they were
listed in the December declaration. Asking for the accounting for
bio-chem. agents is the most solid, but there is no evidence that he
has
any (it is clear that he did). To assume that there is a coherent
story
of their destruction (if that is what happened) forgets that
bureaucracies don't necessarily leave good paper behind something as
back burner as that action was at the time.

But what is striking is the lack of a technical approach. This feels
more like an advertising campaign than a remorseless investigation of
man made material things.

And the total lack of any of these requirements being based on things
found out by intelligence, yet purporting to be a sufficient list, is
mind boggling.

Blending an engineering approach with the humane disciplines of
politics, governance and social strategy looks like a part of our
culture we forgot to create.

Douglass Carmichael
email doug () bigmindmedia com
home page www.dougcarmichael.com
blog www.dougcarmichael.com/roughcut.html
360-221-6127
Whidbey Island, Washington
-- Dave

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