IP: Some more on Registered Trademark

[Dave Farber <farber () cis upenn edu>]

From: "Larry Andrew" <LLAndrew () powersurge net>
To: <johnmac () acm org>
Cc: <farber () cis upenn edu>, <declan () well com>, <connie () lsoft com>

John,
I saw your comment about the "listserv" trademark in the IP list and sent my
comment to Connie Newman.  Her response is below.  I examined the web sight,
understand her argument, and find it lacking.  I do not consider it
responsible use of the trademark function as L-soft should have registered
the word years earlier if they had planned on doing so.

Unfortunately, even though something may be legal, it is not necessarily
right, correct, moral, or ethical.  Look at what is happening in the
impeachment hearings these days.  (I am NOT expressing my personal beliefs
at this point, either way.)  Ever hear the quote about "...then the law is
an ass"?

Unfortunately,  the ones who sort all this out in our society are the
<shudder> lawyers!

Anyway, good luck with your LISTSERV (R) articles.

Larry Andrew
Assistant Professor of MIS
Division of Business
Upper Iowa University

AndrewL () uiu edu
LLAndrew () powersurge net

-----Original Message-----
From: Connie Newman <connie () lsoft com>
To: Larry Andrew <LLAndrew () powersurge net>
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Registered Trademark


If you would like to educate yourself as to how LISTSERV (R)
became our trademark, please feel free to view our company's
history at:

http://www.lsoft.com/listserv-hist.stm

Thank you and best regards,

Connie Newman
L-Soft

> Re:  LISTSERV trademark (IP distribution below)
>
> Dear Ms. Newman,
>
> As an information systems professional and college professor of Management
> Information Systems, I am greatly offended that your firm would take
> action to trademark the term "listserv".  This term has been used
> generically in the industry for years and your trademark registration of
> 1996, while perhaps legal, goes beyond good taste and propriety.  You
> should in all good conscience reconsider your action and release the
> trademark, and even consider an open appology to the I.S. community at
> large.  Be assured that I will advise my clients to avoid the use of
> products and services associated with the name L-Soft.
>
> Lawrence L. Andrew
> LLAndrew () powersurge net
> AndrewL () uiu edu
> ==================================================
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Farber <farber () cis upenn edu>
> To: ip-sub-1 () majordomo pobox com <ip-sub-1 () majordomo pobox com>
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 4:21 PM
> Subject: IP: Registered Trademark
>
>
> > From: "John F. McMullen" <johnmac () acm org>
> > To: "Dave Farber" <farber () cis upenn edu>, "Declan McCullagh"
> <farber () cis upenn edu>
> > After writing a column for the Westchester Business Journal that
> > contained the term "listserv", a term that I have used since 1989 in
> > articles,
> columns
> > and in teaching at college and university level, I received the enclosed
> > message from Connie Newman at L-Soft, chastizing me for using a
> > Registered TradeMark of her firm. After breiefly discussing the letter
> > with Dave
> Faber,
> > I replied to Connie asking when L-Soft had filed the trademark. She
> > responded "The trademark is U.S. Reg. #2,001,258 for LISTSERV registered
> > September 17, 1996.".
> >
> > While L-Soft may have acted within the framework of the law, I find this
> > situation intellectually insulting - like me attempting to register
> "telnet"
> > or "ftp" as registered trademarks of McMullen & McMullen, Inc.
> > I did a quick check through books in the extensive McMullen library. "The
> > Internet Unleashed", Sams, 1994 states "Listservs are one of the most
> > accessible Internet resources .." (p 320) and then goes on for 46 pages
> > describing the use. Esther Dyson on page 44 of Release 2.1 uses the term.
> > "The Internet for Dummies Quick Reference" defines Listserv as "a family
> > of programs that automatically manages mailing lists .. " .. and I have
> > found
> a
> > number of other references - all but the first since 1996 - and none
> > refer to it as a Registered TradeMark. What about e-mail addresses like
> > listserv () american edu? Is that a
> violation?
> > I may be making too much of this but I find it galling. This is not a
> > case of an uninformed public using a term like "Xerox" or "Coke"
> > incorrectly. This is an outfit that had to know better grabbing a generic
> > term and
> making
> > it a brand name (In fact, one of the books that I came across refers to
> > it as a "generic term"). As far as I'm concerned, this is intellectually
> > dishonest. Please distribute this for comments to johnmac () acm org or on
> > Dave Faber's list. I would hope that Jamie Love would be interested in
> > something like this as well as our various net attorneys. I will write
> > about it - but
> would
> > like to see some outrage and, perhaps, action
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Connie Newman [mailto:connie () lsoft com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 4:21 PM
> > To: johnmac () acm org
> > Subject: Registered Trademark
> >
> > It has come to our attention that you are using the term LISTSERV (r) to
> > describe electronic mail distribution lists in your article, "Spam and
> other
> > electronic annoyances"  Unfortunately, that term is a registered
> > trademark. It is a common mistake to use LISTSERV (r) as a generic term.
> > It would be helpful if you would replace it in the future with another
> > phrase, such as "mailing list" or "announcement service". We apologize if
> > this causes any inconvenience.  Your attention to this matter is greatly
> > appreciated. Please contact me with any concerns or questions. Sincerely,
> >
> > Connie Newman
> >
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Connie Newman <connie () lsoft com>
> > L-Soft international, Inc.
> > http://www.lsoft.com
> >
> >
> > "When you come to the fork in the road, take it" - L.P. Berra
> > John F. McMullen
> > johnmac () acm org ICQ: 4368412
> > http://www.westnet.com/~observer
> > http://www.westnet.com/~observer/Y2KCOACH.html (Y2K Site)



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Connie Newman <connie () lsoft com>
L-Soft international, Inc.
http://www.lsoft.com