##7 Immigration Concerns

[Jay Banks <banks () darwin bu edu>]

[Summary - see YSN #1314 for the complete post.  -ed.]
  W. Zhang asks (YSN #1312) why employers choose to go through the alien
certification process rather than hiring equally qualified U.S.
citizens.  The usual answer is that the "alien" they want to hire is
ALREADY working there on some kind of temporary visa, and they want to
keep him/her, and help him/her get a green card or longer-term visa. 
That's why the "State employment service" job ads have such precise
requirements -- so that the employer can "prove" that "no U.S. citizen
or permanent resident" meets the "qualifications"!
  I don't want to rekindle the immigration flame war, but it occurs to
me that if it were EASIER for "foreigners" to get into the U.S. - in
particular, if anyone who wanted to come here could do so with no
restrictions - all of this nonsense wouldn't exist!  Employers would
hire the best qualified person.  And job advertisements would be for
real jobs that are really available.  It's not the existence of foreign
workers that leads to the "green card ads" that are so frustrating to so
many of us.  It's the REQUIREMENT to advertise jobs that don't really
exist in order to KEEP the person you want to work for you.

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From: SCHULTZ () CDDIS GSFC NASA GOV (Dan Schultz)

  In YSN Digest #1307, Don Baker wrote:  "Did you know that my state
employment agency has a code for positions that will not take
native-born citizens?  The employer has to inform the state, but no one
has to inform the applicant.  And it's supposed to be a secret from
native-born applicants.  Do we need employers like that in this country? 
And the engineers they hire?"
  In YSN Digest #1310, Steve Cook wrote:  "In states wherein the
employment services office views its role as an advocate for the
employer, those responding to such an advertisement will receive minimal
(if any) consideration."
  Secret Codes!... Isn't that sweet?... Who do these guys work for
anyway?  What experience have you all had with State Job Placement or
Employment Security Agencies? Has anyone on the YSN ever landed a
Science or Engineering job by answering an ad from a state agency? Maybe
when we get done pummelling the Department of Labor, we could start in
with our state legislators and ask them to reform these agencies so that
they work for us for a change.....  

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From: banks () darwin bu edu (Jay Banks)

[Summary - see YSN #1315 for the complete post.  -ed.]
  Several recent posts have complained about what I call "green card"
job advertisements, which result from the labor certification process. 
I hope the following renewed attempt at clarification will produce
understanding rather than flames.  The Labor Dept., and the state
agencies that do the "certifying," are there to INSURE that American
citizens/permanent residents get PREFERENCE for jobs.  An employer is
REQUIRED to place an ad through the state employment service, even
though there is NOT REALLY ANY JOB AVAILABLE.  If there were no such
requirement, THERE WOULD BE NO AD, because THERE IS NO JOB.  Even though
the placement of such ads is in some sense an abuse of the process, it
does not enable "foreigners" to "take away 'our' jobs," only to keep
jobs they already have, and thus have some chance of getting to live in
this country, and contribute to our economy!  As for "secret codes,"
that is presumably total nonsense.  ALL "green card" ads are the same,
ALL have a "code number" which is just a reference to the state
employment service's listings, and ALL (not "many" or "most" as one
poster said) are for jobs that DON'T EXIST.  So the thing to do is
ignore them, not flame about them!

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From: GILLIGAN () cmdl1 cmdl erl gov (Jonathan M. Gilligan)

  W. Zhang writes (YSN #1312):  "The question that begs asking is why
would any employer opt for that process [labor certification] rather
than to hire an equally qualified U.S. citizen who in all likelihood
could start working the next day."
  Jay Banks has already responded to this question, but I would add
another reason: loyalty. A man I know recently went through a great
struggle to get a green card for a postdoc from Eastern Europe and to
help the postdoc find a job in industry because he had worked with this
postdoc for two years and felt a bond of loyalty to him. This was not a
case of exploiting a foreigner who would accept lower wages, nor of
hiring someone who was clearly better than any U.S. citizen (he wasn't
even hiring the fellow), but of one person feeling an obligation to help
his postdoc. Isn't this what we all wish our employers would do for us
at the end of graduate school or a postdoc?

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End of Digest
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