Re: DefCon 'Race to Zero'

["Joel R. Helgeson" <joel () helgeson com>]

Addressing the whole list, not any one person in particular:

Sorry, there is a lot to be learned by getting inside the mind of a hacker
and building software to defeat AV Packages. If you cannot see this then you
don't belong in the security industry.  As a security expert, you make
security better by constantly thinking of new ways to violate it. If
everything the enemy can think of catches you totally off guard, I think you
need to get a new job, find a new career, either voluntarily or after you
get fired.

Locksmiths hold competitions on who can crack a safe the fastest. Does this
then put them on par with burglars? Jeez, the cat burglar and the locksmith
use the same toolkits, the only difference is how they earn their living.

When people ask me what I do for a living, I tell them "I get paid to do
what other people go to jail for." "I'm a hacker, I'm one of the good guys."

Seriously, what security expert hasn't thought about how to rob a bank, take
down the internet, crash a server... we think maliciously and act with
integrity.

So, let's race toward ring zero and further hone our skills in the spirit of
noble competition.

Just my 2 cents...

JRHelgeson

-----Original Message-----
From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org] On
Behalf Of Rich Kulawiec
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:44 AM
To: funsec () linuxbox org
Subject: Re: [funsec] DefCon 'Race to Zero'

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:49:37PM -0400, B Potter wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:05 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote:
> > I'm sorry, but if people don't already realize that their behavior
> > is already dangerous by reading the plethora of data, articles,
> > research, blogs, etc. that is available, some controversial contest
> > to write "stealthy" malware at DefCon ain't gonna do it either.
>
> Honestly, I think it's sad that everyone is scared of talking about/ 
> building/demo-ing 0day these days.  10 years ago you could go to any  
> security/hacker con and several talks would be revealing some new vuln/ 
> exploit.  IMO, that's changed dramatically  due to several reasons:

I agree with both of you.

I think it's fine that DefCon is going to have a malware construction
contest.  It may be entertaining.

But let's not pretend that it will raise awareness: it won't.  It won't
be publicized beyond the circle that we work in, and even if it is, the
people who most need to have their awareness raised won't hear about it
or pay the slightest attention to it or modify their behavior in any way.
They will continue to use worst-of-breed products like Outlook and IE,
they will continue to click on anything shiny, and they will continue
to subvert their own systems 24x7, thus saving attackers the trouble of
doing it themselves.

This is yet another version of one of Marcus Ranum's six dumbest mistakes
in security: Number 5, educating users.  As he says, "if it was going
to work, it would have worked by now".

---Rsk
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