Re: VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[GloW - XD <doomxd () gmail com>]

precisely why i did not screrw with peoples things and thx for poiting this
out.

Providers that steal other peoples hacks don't last long in the
underground. People take that personally :)

This is a BIG reason why, i did not, nor my coadmin, touch things, unless we
were invited to, and, never ever did any 'ircd steals' in that way, people
were paying me for a 'shell' , it was what i decided todo, and, then, i did
never even get once, emails from MY providrs, so why should i listen to some
dud who got his box owned and is spewing... it is kinda how i saw things, my
customers owned them, they compained to me, this caused me nothing but,
making a new user dir and, making new box for the user,..... if this stuff
persisted, ie, nonstop compaints, and, uplink complaints would usually
follow, i still would try rehome them on a priv box.
So, i guess nowdays, maybe id not do this, but this was 2008.
xheers.
xd


On 1 October 2011 02:40, Laurelai <laurelai () oneechan org> wrote:

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> On 9/30/2011 9:46 AM, Paul Schmehl wrote:
> > IOW, there is no honor among thieves.
> >
> > This isn't a new concept.
> >
> > --On September 30, 2011 3:31:06 PM +0100 Darren Martyn
> > <d.martyn.fulldisclosure () gmail com> wrote:
> >
> > > By screw you over I did not intend to mean "sell you out". I meant a
> more
> > > criminal fucking over - where they backdoor the box (Hey, physical
> access
> > > and its THEIR server) and steal your criminal assets... i.e. steal, say,
> > > your formgrabber data (and keep it), jack your botnet, etc... SOme of
> > > them guys do just that. The domain "khant.info" used to be a "free
> botnet
> > > service" where one could use Khant's servers to run a botnet. It was
> > > marketed toward script kiddies, and after a few short months he ran off
> > > with their bots and their money :)
> > >
> > > Just an example of how common it is for a "bulletproof host" or such to
> > > fuck you over.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:56 PM, xD 0x41 <secn3t () gmail com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
> > >
> > > it is NOT atall.. he is kidding himself..
> > > I already said just ONE country where i could happily commit crimes, in
> > > the usa or uk from, and thru, panama.
> > > simple as that, they wont execute crap unless you commit fraud etc, on
> > > theyre home.
> > > cheers.
> > > xd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 29 September 2011 23:54, Louis McCoy <louie () wellandlighthouse com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/29/2011 9:27 AM, Benji wrote:
> > >
> > > No, you are wrong.
> > >
> > >
> > > Either; the vpn provider complied with court order, or they face the
> > > legal ramifications of not doing so. User location is irrelevant.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, xD 0x41 <secn3t () gmail com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > indeed :)
> > > but, it is how a proper anon person would operate, well, tht is how i
> > > once did...
> > > anyhow, it is to broad, and, yes, i qwould never believe in bulletproof,
> > > unless i have used it maybe, for 10yrs, thru 10 botnets ;P wich, is very
> > > rare but funnily, possible.
> > > webhosters, are even more corrupt and better at hiding data.. face it,
> > > if the vpn provider had not shat themself, then it would be a non story.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 29 September 2011 23:00, Benji <me () b3nji com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > 'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41 <secn3t () gmail com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on
> that
> > > ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but,
> i
> > > sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
> > > handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my
> company,
> > > i was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could
> > > do the same 'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
> > > it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not
> > > hard to move a user around boxes :P
> > > and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is
> > > somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company
> > > environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit
> > > apparently* companies...and they do it using those simple means, and,
> > > even show logs of them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad
> > > user' , this is, a whole different level than even needing to deal with
> > > cops.. so, you are scared too much by laws wich can be smokescreened.
> > > Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
> > > users they actually rm ;)
> > > you would want this service, on your vps ?
> > > i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon,
> > > if you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep
> my
> > > darn data secure ey ?
> > > how about that ?
> > > simple methods, defeat simple plans benji.
> > > xd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji <me () b3nji com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
> > > located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
> > > details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this
> > > idea that they can't.
> > >
> > >
> > > Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
> > > anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related
> country
> > > to do this is either stupid or naive.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41 <secn3t () gmail com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
> > > Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
> > > also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the
> provider
> > > may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country
> customers,
> > > should not be handed over.
> > > isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not
> > > take down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders',
> there
> > > is many reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
> > > Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should
> > > have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and
> > > anyone. thats obvious crap we know now.
> > > anyhow, cheers,
> > > xd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji <me () b3nji com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK
> business
> > > and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn
> > > <d.martyn.fulldisclosure () gmail com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
> > > The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
> > > recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some
> > > talented programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more
> > > interesting was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the
> developers
> > > and coders and potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it
> was
> > > essentially an ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc,
> > > when in fact most were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
> > >
> > > This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing new
> > > - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us
> who
> > > are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
> > >
> > > On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there
> > > is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming
> > > that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
> > > Good day.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm <laurelai () oneechan org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might
> > > give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and
> > > better.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd () gmail com> wrote:
> > > > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed
> > > and
> > > > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
> > > > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
> > > hopefully it
> > > > is just, cool.
> > > > :)
> > > > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
> > > > take care ,
> > > > xd
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm <laurelai () oneechan org>
> wrote:
> > > > > Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
> > > > > On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd () gmail com> wrote:
> > > > > > Hello Laurelai ,
> > > > > > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even
> > > know
> > > > > > where, legally, i stand anymore...
> > > > > > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
> > > > > > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
> > > > > > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy,
> > > in my
> > > > > > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
> > > > > torrent
> > > > > > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by
> the
> > > > > > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and
> > > what
> > > > > > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
> > > > > > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing
> > > places like
> > > > > > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics,
> > > whom
> > > > > in
> > > > > > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think
> > > this
> > > > > is
> > > > > > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was
> > > apart
> > > > > of
> > > > > > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
> > > > > > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not
> > > alone
> > > > > by
> > > > > > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout
> > > now..and, that
> > > > > is
> > > > > > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
> > > > > > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without
> > > realising,
> > > > > asked
> > > > > > a friend, to code for them.
> > > > > > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module
> > > running
> > > > > now.
> > > > > > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it
> > > :s look
> > > > > at
> > > > > > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon
> > > and a
> > > > > > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out
> > > with
> > > > > > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is
> > > mutual
> > > > > > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect
> > > the
> > > > > same.
> > > > > > Respect for respect dear.
> > > > > > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not
> > > > > holding
> > > > > > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one
> > > > > idiotic
> > > > > > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i
> want
> > > > > that,
> > > > > > to be laid rest now.. please.
> > > > > > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail
> and
> > > > > > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way,
> > > wether
> > > > > > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of
> > > peoples
> > > > > > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for
> > > VPN, I
> > > > > do
> > > > > > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
> > > > > that,without
> > > > > > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now
> > > legal and
> > > > > not
> > > > > > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
> > > > > > ok, thats plenty, cheers!
> > > > > > xd
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai <laurelai () oneechan org>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
> > > > > > > On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs" <tyra3l () gmail com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD <doomxd () gmail com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
> > > > > > > > > hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing...
> > > why
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > ppl
> > > > > > > > > tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
> > > > > > > > > ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
> > > > > > > > > xd
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
> > > > > > > > > <d.martyn.fulldisclosure () gmail com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But
> > > seeing as
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > an international investigation many people have been bending
> > > over
> > > > > > > backwards
> > > > > > > > > > to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's
> > > of
> > > > > choice
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite
> > > channel
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part
> of
> > > > > > > LulzSec".
> > > > > > > > > > TL;DR, this is nothing new.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm <
> > > > > laurelai () oneechan org
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"
> > > <noloader () gmail com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan . <ivanhec () gmail com
> >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down
> > > -alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
> > > > > > > > > > > > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it
> > > looks as
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > > > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the
> > > FBI
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > > jurisdiction in the UK.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Charter:
> > > http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > > > > > > > > Charter:
> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > > > > > > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > > > > > > > Charter:
> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > > > > > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > > > > > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > > > > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Ferenc Kovács
> > > > > > > > @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > > > > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > > > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > > > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From my understanding they used the channel as a possible
> > > recruitment
> > > > > > > ground, though only 6 people were officially a part of lulzsec , i
> > > find
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > disturbing that law enforcement considers being in an irc channel
> > > > > tantamount
> > > > > > > to being a part of lulzsec.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > > > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> Providers that steal other peoples hacks don't last long in the
> underground. People take that personally :)
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/