Re: Compliance Is Wasted Money, Study Finds

[Christian Sciberras <uuf6429 () gmail com>]

Perhaps you haven't noticed, this is Full-Disclosure, which at least, is
used to discuss security measures.
As such, it is only natural to argue with PCI's possible security flaws.

Besides, in a democratic society (where CC do operate as well), you can't
"force" someone to install an anti-virus just because _you_ think it is
secure.

The argument were compliance is wasted money still holds.

Cheers.




On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Shaqe Wan <sha8e () yahoo com> wrote:

> Hola,
>
> The problem is not weather they are educated against other standards or
> policies or not, the problem is that without this compliance you can't work
> with CC !!! Its something that is enforced on you !
>
> BTW: why don't people discuss what is the points missing in the PCI
> Compliance better than this argue ?
>
> Regards,
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Christian Sciberras <uuf6429 () gmail com>
> *To:* Shaqe Wan <sha8e () yahoo com>
> *Cc:* full-disclosure () lists grok org uk
> *Sent:* Mon, April 26, 2010 4:19:27 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Full-disclosure] Compliance Is Wasted Money, Study Finds
>
> OK.
>
> "All those in favour of PCI raises their hands."
>
> Kidding aside, of course it is a must, since the said companies doesn't
> have any notion of security before this happens.
> However, how much is this actually helpful? Now let's be honest, how much
> would it stop a potential attacker from getting into a system "protected" by
> PCI?
> Little, if at all.
>
> On the other hand, a company should adopt real and complete security
> practices.
>
> Again, my point is, these companies shouldn't be "educated" or limit their
> security to this standard. Because if they do (and I'm pretty sure they do)
> would make this standard pretty much useless.
>
> Anyway, I won't get into this argument, since no one will give a sh*t about
> it anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Shaqe Wan <sha8e () yahoo com> wrote:
>
> > Christian,
> >
> > Did you read my first post?
> >
> > ((( IMO, PCI is not that big security policy, but without it your not
> > able to use the credit card companies gateway. I think its just the
> > basics that any company dealing with CC must implement. Because it shall be
> > nonsense to deal with CC, and not have an Anti-virus for example !! )))
> >
> > I am not stating that PCI is good in no way, but I am saying that its a
> > MUST for companies dealing with CC. And in a windows environment, an AV is
> > important.
> >
> > He probably thought that I am with the rules of PCI, or that I don't have
> > any idea that the world is not just WINDOWS !!!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Christian Sciberras <uuf6429 () gmail com>
> > *To:* Shaqe Wan <sha8e () yahoo com>
> > *Cc:* full-disclosure () lists grok org uk
> > *Sent:* Mon, April 26, 2010 3:54:20 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [Full-disclosure] Compliance Is Wasted Money, Study Finds
> >
> > Why exactly are you complying with Nick's statements? I would have thought
> > you guys were arguing against said statements?
> >
> >
> > By the way, requirement #6 is particularly funny; it sounds peculiarly
> > redundant to me...
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Shaqe Wan <sha8e () yahoo com> wrote:
> >
> > >  Nick,
> > >
> > > Please if you don't know what the standards are, please read:
> > >
> > > https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/security_standards/pci_dss.shtml
> > >
> > > See *Requirement #5*. Read that requirement carefully and its not bad to
> > > read it twice though in case you don't figure it out from the first glance !
> > >
> > > Also, I said that using an AV is some basic thing to do in any company
> > > that wants to deal with CC, its a basic thing for even companies not dealing
> > > with CC too !!! Or do you state that people must use a BOX with no AV
> > > installed on it? If you believe in that fact? Then please request a change
> > > in the PCI DSS requirements and make them force the usage of a non Windows
> > > O.S, such as any *n?x system.
> > >
> > > Finally, the topic here is not about "default allow vs default deny" and
> > > if I understand what that is or not! You can open a new discussion about
> > > that, and I shall join there and discuss it further with you, in case you
> > > need some clarification regarding it.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Shaqe
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On *Sun, 4/25/10, Nick FitzGerald <nick () virus-l demon co uk>* wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Nick FitzGerald <nick () virus-l demon co uk>
> > > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Compliance Is Wasted Money, Study Finds
> > > To: full-disclosure () lists grok org uk
> > > Date: Sunday, April 25, 2010, 1:57 PM
> > >
> > > Shaqe Wan wrote:
> > >
> > > <<snip>>
> > > > Because it shall be nonsense to deal with CC, and not have an
> > > Anti-virus for example !!
> > >
> > > Well, you see, _that_ is abject nonsense on its face.
> > >
> > > Do you have any understanding of one of the most basic of security
> > > issues -- default allow vs. default deny?
> > >
> > > There are many more secure ways to run systems _without_ antivirus
> > > software.
> > >
> > > Anyone authoritatively stating that antivirus software is a necessary
> > > component of a "reasonably secure" system is a fool.
> > >
> > > Anyone authoritatively stating that antivirus software is a necessary
> > > component of a "sufficiently secure" system is one (or more) of; a
> > > fool, a person with an unusually low standard of system security, or a
> > > shill for an antivirus producer.
> > >
> > > So _if_, as you and another recent poster strongly imply, the PCI
> > > standards include a specific _requirement_ for antivirus software, then
> > > the standards themselves are total nonsense...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Nick FitzGerald
> > >
> > >
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