Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility
From: Eric Ericson <harlequin () earthlink net>
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 11:38:46 -0700
(I'm not a lawyer, but I spent a couple of three years working IS in Radiology at a hospital so take it for what it's worth.) First a couple of things: 1) There is no HIPAA enforcement agency. All infractions are considered either a civil rights violation (yeah, I'm serious) or a criminal violation. 2) HIPAA applies to any company who has "data custodian" rights for any electronic Patient Health Information (ePHI). That means the hospital, vendors, even regular corporate HR departments (because of any information they might have about your prior medical conditions in conjunction with your Medical Insurance). 3) When you said you verified the patient data as being valid, what exactly do you hypothetically mean? The reason I ask is that the Patriot act has some VERY nasty penalties regarding offensive actions taken towards hospitals. If you're clean though, I wouldn't stress. 4) HIPAA does have teeth in a situation like this if this data disclosure was due to negligence or malice. If the data was knowingly disclosed the penalty can be up to a US$250,000 fine and ten years in prison. That's for an individual, not an organization (as are most of the other fines). So, with that said. What I'd recommend is that you contact the Risk Management department at the Hospitals. Explain the situation to them and just make it clear you're trying to help. They're biggest concern is C-ing the hospital's A, so I wouldn't stress to hard on them trying to place blame on you. Plus this also puts them in a situation where they knowingly have to disclose to their patients, and if the Risk Management group is mostly lawyers, so they're less likely to try to bury this. Good Luck, -E2 (Oh, if you're looking for more HIPAA info, check out UCSF Medical center's page at http://www.ucsf.edu/hipaa) -- Eric Ericson harlequin () earthlink net When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris
From: r r <anothersecurityquestion () gmail com> Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 18:57:43 -0400 To: <full-disclosure () lists grok org uk> Subject: [Full-disclosure] Undisclosed breach at major US facility Need some advise here. I would like to know what to do if I --hypothetically speaking-- I were to retrieve _complete_ databases of a MAJOR us hospital. My hypothetical model is not brute force, but rather an 'accidental' discovery by trying to retrieve updates from a software vendor. Let's say this Big Name software vendor, who sells itself as being an authority on security, is so flipping retarded that they stick their customer data on a public CVS server. Let's say I sync to this and dump a couple hundreds of meg of 'updates' only to later discover that those are NOT updates. Those are data files for other customers (which when prodding, reveals itself to be very real, verified data of at least one high-profile hospital) I read up as much as I could on HIPAA, but this is beyond the slip-ups to be covered by HIPAA. Beyond medical records and privacy, this wreaks of woeful incompetence by who should be freaking security professionals!! (4 MAJOR organizations who have royally screwed up here). First thoughts are to call HIPAA (has to be federally reported for number of people and different states affected). And while HIPAA is supposed to protect the 'whistleblower', I don't put much confidence in it. Maybe a webpost through anonomizer (and borrowed connections) like I do to check gmail. And if these companies are notified, what happens? A slap on the wrist? Wash it under the rug and label the person discovering it all to be a Black Hat? Let's not forget about the diebold fiasco(s)---(fwiw I don't work for any of the involved companies--in my theoretical model I would solely be the customer of questionable software). One idea (by one of my imaginary friends who pretends to be a doctor and a former hospital board member) was to ABSOLUTELY NOT tell the hospital for various reasons. That alter-ego of mine instead suggested I get an attorney that specialized in that. That sounds expensive. Now, I feel like a victim. If _I_ have been able to discover such a gaping hole (and I didn't even TRY to find it), then I am pretty sure that it already has been taken. In any case, it will be stolen in a matter of weeks. Since that is inevitable, I should just remove all the data I obtained and forget about it. In the end, I feel bad for the hundreds of thousands of people who can be totally raped of their identities (or be scammed for extraneous chargesl, etc etc). But, why should I be the scapegoat for pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes? Any useable thoughts? _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Current thread:
- Undisclosed breach at major US facility r r (Jul 03)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility mikeiscool (Jul 03)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Denis Jedig (Jul 03)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Stack Smasher (Jul 03)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Valdis . Kletnieks (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Brian Eaton (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Eric Ericson (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Stack Smasher (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility nobody Wuss (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Eric Ericson (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Eric Ericson (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility pauls (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Stack Smasher (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Valdis . Kletnieks (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Q-Ball (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility mikeiscool (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Stefan Keller (Jul 04)
- Re: Undisclosed breach at major US facility Stack Smasher (Jul 04)