Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: RE: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two
From: Ka <ka () khidr net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 03:10:43 +0100
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greetings to all.
Ka> Basically what is actually done by Black-Hats and White-Hats Ka> is the same thing: find holes and patch them ...
democow> I find this to be totally untrue, in some respects the methods democow> that black\white hats go about to discover and find information democow> about a cretin subject is quite the same. But the intentions democow> are entirely different. And the repercussion of actions of the democom> part of each is entirely different. They are different, yes, but not entirely. From my perspective the differences are smaller than the similarities - for example if compared to the unprofessional lame sysadmin running a worm-mothership for months. And how do you call the IT professionals who set up the Echelon project - white hats? I don't. Just let the present situation develop a little farther and have government agencies really _use_ the full scanning and observation sytems they are so eager to set up. I mean: use them against you. On which side would you be? democow> what is it that a person judges himself by if not his ethics, democow> and the ethics of the people he\she chooses to be around… Through his conscience and by his consciousness. Preformulated ethics or peer-group ethics are unusable finally - emphasis on 'preformulated'. democow> people hang around like minded people.. democow> And in this community that is usually based on ethics your democow> choice of words here is quite odd, and reflects your democow> misunderstand of the situation at hand 'mind' as well as 'ethics' is old software and judged by the global results we have achieved in 2000 years I wouldn't even call it an alpha version. democow> [about responseable persons] and what do you think the democow> white hats are my friend Responseable persons - responding in-line with law. I think not all of them would be equally ethical if the law was different. Just a little change in the outside situation will show who is what. There is no line in nature between white and black or between one country and the next. Just remember Antrax. democow> we are in no way telling people what they should, democow> should not do we, we are not trying to control anything democow> other then information flowing to people that should not democow> access to it , as well as making sure that anyone who democow> plans to let said information flow into the general stream democow> knows the repercussions an event like that would have.. Are you sure, that you know the repercussion (gee - I just learned a new word!) of this information control you are suggesting? And - do you really think such a thing could be done at all? If it could be done, I would understand the discussion (and I would still hold on to my standpoint). But it simply cannot be made. Just wishful thinking. Politics - far away from reality, trying to suppress freedom in the name of freedom, hastily running to do something against problems which have their very roots in politics. Mindful - hmmm, not even alpha. democow> Just because script kiddies are not that bight.. That does democow> not stop them from their actions and the money spent not democow> only to stop them.. But of the financial loss of regular democow> consumers.. Due to credit card fraud.. HA! Script kiddies creating financial loss through credit card fraud? On what planet are you living? The big fraud is done by the companies (e.g. sex sites) who offer their services through credit cards and just "forget" to set up propper cancellation, because they know that their customers are not going to reclaim too loud (or as I would phrase it: who know very well, that their customers are slaves of their sex-repressive pseudo-ethics). But after all, script kiddies have their own clientel, namely lame sysadmins and spammers. Let them fight it out among each other. democow> Down time.. etc, Ignorance and lazyness are not playing their part in this? Including the ignorance of the IT professionals at large, who have not setup the protocolls correctly or are unwilling to improve them out of "cost/effectiveness calculations"? democow> As well do not forget what socks said, that they are democow> in part responsible for the harsh laws being implemented Holla! For such a sentence you even need to hide behind sockz words. I better stop here, I think... Ka - -- http://www.khidr.net/users/ka/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE92Z2k72vu22ltWBERAr/aAJ0c+H7gnHRDvt56siZBH/PbR8ndBACfQV4p Y790YGSh8a63o7wxvzDRgOw= =axTD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two sockz loves you (Nov 17)
- Re: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two Euan Briggs (Nov 18)
- Re: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two Ka (Nov 18)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- RE: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two democow the happy cow (Nov 18)
- Re: RE: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two Silvio Cesare (Nov 18)
- Re: RE: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two Ka (Nov 18)
- Re: RE: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two Noreturn (Nov 19)
- Re: RE: Security Industry Under Scrutiny: Part Two Silvio Cesare (Nov 18)