Firewall Wizards mailing list archives
RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration
From: "Ben Nagy" <ben () iagu net>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 17:08:37 +0200
OK, OK, OK. I've just been slogging through some very very nasty Intel protected mode architecture documentation, which may be making me tetchy, so apologies in advance. Don't get me wrong, I have read enough from both of you to know you have bags full of clue, and I don't want this to come across ad hominem. However, in the spirit of lively debate... You're both crazy, and here's why. :P 1. You're assuming that ISA is more hackable than OWA. Last I checked OWA is both a web application that takes user parameters and an application running on top of IIS. If I had to place bets on which of those two boxes is going to get hacked I will bet big on the OWA box. Assuming that the ISA box can protect it from malicious web based traffic is whistling into the wind. The one single port that you're leaving open is the exact same port that will be carrying all of the attack traffic you're most worried about. 2. Besides, what's the impact if your ISA box gets hacked? You don't need to give it _any_ access to the internal network (except for services other than mail, which we're not really discussing). Let's break it down. ISA Box Owned Scenario 1: No big deal Scenario 2: No big deal OWA Box Owned Scenario 1: Hosed Scenario 2: In big trouble, but not dead yet. So your architecture can only be correct if the OWA box is _many_ times harder to own in Scenario 1. The only security delta I can see is that you're restricting a two stage attack (own ISA box, attack OWA box) to using port 443 for the second stage. The direct attacks are unchanged. This is not, IMO, sufficient security benefit. In fact, if it _really_ bothers you then buy a $900 router and add another filter between ISA and OWA. Or configure the IP filters on the OWA box. Buy Blink. Buy ZoneAlarm. Do whatever. Just don't give any hacker that finds a decent HTTP-tunneled command execution bug in OWA a one shot kill. Cheers, ben
-----Original Message----- From: Sanford Reed [mailto:sanford.reed () cox net] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 4:35 PM To: 'Ben Nagy'; firewall-wizards () honor icsalabs com Subject: RE: [fw-wiz] PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration I hate to disagree but in 1 the [hackable box] is the ISA Proxy which is 'protected' by the outer PIX. The 'pot-o-gold' as you put it is behind the second PIX. Access to the internal network for this box is very limited to only port 443. IN 2 you have out two MS boxes 'out there' for the Hackers to get to and as Paul points out, having the [OWA] Server out there 'forces' you to open many ports so that Active Directory can function. I've tried it both ways and I strongly agreed with Paul AND 9unfortunaly in this case) Microsoft 2 is a 'bad' choice due simply to the un-needed exposure of the additional ports by putting the [OWA] in the 'DMZ'. Sanford Reed (V) 757.406.7067 -----Original Message----- From: firewall-wizards-admin () honor icsalabs com [mailto:firewall-wizards-admin () honor icsalabs com] On Behalf Of Ben Nagy Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:54 AM To: firewall-wizards () honor icsalabs com Subject: RE: [fw-wiz] PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Post order fixed, response inline. </whips out dusty cluestick...>-----Original Message-----[Jason Gomes] [...]What is the preferred placement for a OWA front-end server given these two possible network configurations and why? 1) [Internet] <==> [PIX Firewall] <==> [ISA Proxy] <==> [PIX Firewall] <==> [OWA] <==> [Internal Net w/Exchange Svr] 2) [Internet] <==> [PIX Firewall] <==> [ISA Proxy] <==> [OWA] <==> [PIX Firewall] <==> [Internal Net w/Exchange Svr][Paul Melson at least has courage of his convictions]#1, definitely.Wow, this may be the first time I recall disagreeing with you, Paul... [Sanford Reed hides behind Microsoft documentation ;]Per MS (Using Microsoft Exchange 2000 Front-End Servers.pdf - available from MS TechNet) it is configuration 1).Once again proving that while MS have made a lot of progress in security some of their authors still have no idea what they are doing. The problem is that people get too excited about their architecture diagrams. I always internally parse these diagrams as: [spaghetti] --> [hackable box] --> [pot of gold] In 1) there are no controls at all between the hackable box and the pot of gold. In 2) there is. Once you simplify things the choice becomes obvious. But hey, you could throw another firewall into 2) if you want. And maybe an IPS as well. A red one, even. Cheers, ben (reliving the glory days of "grumpy old man" responses) _______________________________________________ firewall-wizards mailing list firewall-wizards () honor icsalabs com http://honor.icsalabs.com/mailman/listinfo/firewall-wizards
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Current thread:
- PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Jason Gomes (May 02)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Sanford Reed (May 02)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Ben Nagy (May 03)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Sanford Reed (May 05)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Ben Nagy (May 05)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Sanford Reed (May 05)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Ben Nagy (May 03)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Mark Tinberg (May 05)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Sanford Reed (May 02)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Jason Gomes (May 03)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Paul Melson (May 03)
- Re: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Kevin (May 05)
- Re: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Jason Gomes (May 05)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Frank Knobbe (May 05)
- RE: PIX -> ISA -> OWA Configuration Paul Melson (May 03)