[Fwd: IDS: RE: how to get a nuke tool of cracking BBS system]

[Philip S Holt <philipsholt () uswest net>]

I had to post this    ...
   Clearly this shows us that, yes, once again, we in for a
*rough ride* for some time    ...
   If you see fit - then please email the appropriate sys
admin and let thm know how you feel    ...
   Our protagonist & young hero Jacky is clearly off to a
*bad start*
   Cyber-O "Perhaps you may want to have a chat with this
young prodigy?"
Philip.
> --- Begin Message ---
>
>
> From: 	"Philip S Holt, Security Engineer / Network Engineer" <philipsholt () uswest net>
>
> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:26:06 -0700
>
>
>
> Steve Manzuik wrote:
>
> > FAQ: See http://www.ticm.com/kb/faq/idsfaq.html
> > IDS: See http://www-rnks.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~sobirey/ids.html
> > HELP: Having problems.. Then email questions to ids-owner () uow edu au
> > NOTE: You MUST remove this line from reply messages as it will be filtered.
> > SPAM: DO NOT send unsolicted mail to this list.
> > USUB: email "unsubscribe ids" to majordomo () uow edu au
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I agree with you Douglas.
>
>    Thank - you Steve, thank - you  Douglas.   I'll add where I feel it is
> *appropriate to do so*, and I will add in places in Jacky's message as well.
>    Jacky- "Do you not understand that posting this alone - clearly shows the
> following and can subsequentily used as evidence against you":
> 1) You intend to cause DOS and or other problems for others    ...
> 2) You want to 'break things' instaed of fix them    ...
> 3) You want us, like the *administrator* in the body of your message to help you
> ...
> 4) You are asking us, in a way, to betray our collective experiences and
> professionalism to aid you in making extra work for other sys admin folks that
> happen to be our peers. "Why then, would we do this? Please, you really need to
> think about your actions and why you even posted this. And please, don't give us the
> *ethical hackers* stance. Now, when it comes to ethics, we are the ones that have
> the ethics - not you and the likes of you. So, do us all a favor, take the road
> lesss travelled and don't even vernture down that hiway    ...
>    Now: "Where is the list moderator? How does this type of querry even get through?
> Jesus    ..." An explanation please????"
>
> > I see this list as an area where knowledgeable IT and IT Security PROFESSIONALS
> > can gather and share ideas.
>
>     Damn straight. "And I'll add a little more." You folks are the ones that help
> me, and when I can, I post where I am able to do so and when I can add something
> that will help us all in the end. Jacky's posting here is *>* counter-productive to
> that which we do and offer, and if this individual needs to learn a lessons the
> *hard way* (as in learning about backup procedures by not backing up appropriately
> and as a result now gets to really learn about system recovery & data restoration),
> then so be it. "If you're going to venture out in the world and choose to play ball
> in parks where it is not appropriate to do so, then fine, bring a bat and I'll
> play    ... "As I would told as a youngster - bring the right bat however    ..."
>
> > Of course it is next to impossible to verify the identity of every member but
> > questions like this one shouldn't even make it on to the list.
>
>    I concur.   Moderator please: "What's going on?"
>
> > I am not saying that we should not talk about or share new and improved
> > exploits, obviously there is a greater benefit than risk in alerting the entire
> > list of a new fix or a new danger.
>
>    Kind of like Cyber-Optik. Now, with that individual, we are often helped with
> their insights and suggestions (firewall-wizards), of which, yes, IMHO, that is
> good. But, by reading *through the lines* with Jacky's posting, this is clearly not
> the case: I am left with the following:1) I want something from these folks (Us -
> the security community and IT engineers)
> 2) I want to cause others damage
> 3) Not only the above - but I will not use proper net ettiquette for those I am
> asking to help me in the first place. "Man, what an insult!"
>    Jacky - please do the following when you communicate with others from this point
> on:
> 1) Work on your spelling
> 2) Use capital and lower case letters properly.
> 3) Learn how to use and implement punctuation.
>    Its much easier on the eyes.
>
> > Jacky, to answer your question, yes, depending on the version of BBS there are
> > lots of tools and scripts that can be used.
>
>    And, Jacky, yes, there are tools to crack virtually anything. "Why do you think
> the majority of us are going to even help you? Seriousily, you must think we're
> nuts    ...!" I personally don't want another *List posting* from you - but please,
> feel free to contact me out of band (that means - my email addresse alone).
>
> >  As far as giving you the methods or tools to do this I won't be a part of that.
> > Just do a search on the internet and you will be sure to find something to help
> > you.
>
>    Yeah Jacky, there's some 20,000 cracker sites around the globe - go ask them for
> help. "Better yet, save July of '99, put it on your calendar, and go join Cult Of
> The Dead Cow and all the others in Vegas for DefCom & Black Hat ~ 5 weeks from now.
> That's the group you want, not this one".
>
> > I am sorry if I am sounding like a jerk, the long hours are catching up with me.
>
>    Good Lord. Far from a jerk. When I read the inital thread last night I simply
> deleted it. In fact, I slept on it and realized I did have something to say and felt
> very strongly about it. Douglas, you're right on here    ...
>
> > "Dauphinee, Douglas H. Mr." <dauphind () hq 5sigcmd army mil> on 05/26/99 10:42:30
> > AM
> >
> > To:   jacky <hfluo () jmu edu cn>, ids () uow edu au
> > cc:    (bcc: Steve Manzuik)
> > Subject:  IDS: RE: how to get a nuke tool of cracking BBS system
> >
> > FAQ: See http://www.ticm.com/kb/faq/idsfaq.html
> > IDS: See http://www-rnks.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~sobirey/ids.html
> > HELP: Having problems.. Then email questions to ids-owner () uow edu au
> > NOTE: You MUST remove this line from reply messages as it will be filtered.
> > SPAM: DO NOT send unsolicted mail to this list.
> > USUB: email "unsubscribe ids" to majordomo () uow edu au
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I have a problem with the implication of this request. Does anyone else see
> > a problem with this list server being used to assist in this type of
> > behavior.
>
>    Yep    ...
>
> > Jacky; Why wouldn't you want the BBS administrator knowing what you were
> > doing if it was honorable.
>
>    And, yes, that is the part I don't *get*. If what you are intending to do Jacky
> is show the relevant sys admin person where holes may be and known exploits and
> vulnerabilities still lie, then why would you want to remain anonymous? "Got
> something to hide, do you?"
>
> > If I have reached the wrong conclusion, please accept my apology in advance.
> > Doug.
>
>    I don't think this is even an issue Doug, now in my opinion and through my
> 'looking glass' anyway    ...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jacky [mailto:hfluo () jmu edu cn]
> > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 9:50 AM
> > To: ids () uow edu au
> > Subject: IDS: how to get a nuke tool of cracking BBS system
> >
> > hi,all
>
>    Punctuation? Capitlaization?, Spacing?
>
> >     i know there are many nuke tools being used to cracking IRC system in
>
>    Really? If you know about these - then why are you bothering us?
>
> > the net.for example ,it can kick anybody people vulnerable
> > off the channels.FLASH UTILITY is such a tool.but nuke tools,(nuke.c
> > )even stronger than the former.
>
>    Spacing, capitilization, paranthesis?
>
> >     but i want to know if there are some tools of cracking BBS systems or
> > just kicking people you don't like off it.
>
>    "Kicking off people YOU DON'T LIKE? Are you saying that you want to enter an IRC
> and have complete control as in the Channel Operator?
>
> > however,
> > such a tool should not be monitored by the BBS administrator.
> >     i'd appreciate any ideas(method or softwares )from you.
> >     regards,
> >      lock
>
>    Know this my young friend    ...I am currently right in the middle of three
> *active investigations*, and in two incidents:
> 1) Those caught will be doing time.
> 2) I go after those I catch.
> 3) I also collect statistics on those that successfully penetrate systems and
> subsequently those I catch, and I now have more information about you and that which
> you want to do for furture use - should I need it.
> 4) Man, if you really want to play with us and enter our community via emails such
> as this, you had better be ready to go the distance, and clearly you should give
> this some thought.
> 5) I want to thank you for you posting, and this is why. "Its yet another wake up
> call to those that need to see that which we already know and for those who don't
> realize just how damaging post's such as yours are, to our efforts and our community
> (as in the case of the moderator not slicing this one *off @ the knees*).
>     You, have a lot to learn, and it seems as though you have gotten off to a bad
> start    ...
> Philip S Holt / MCP
> A concerned & curious one    ...
>
>
>
>
> --- End Message ---