Re: Latency is a demogorgon (dave aitel)

[Jeffrey Carr <greylogic.carr () gmail com>]

Thanks for this post, Dave. I enjoyed reading it.

Regarding the EQ Group leak, I think that there's a good case to be made
that an insider or an ex-employee was responsible. I hope to have some
reasons posted on why that is in the next few days.

Jeff Carr


On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 9:00 AM, <dailydave-request () lists immunityinc com>
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>    1. Latency is a demogorgon (dave aitel)
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> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:01:50 -0400
> From: dave aitel <dave () immunityinc com>
> To: "dailydave () lists immunityinc com"
>         <dailydave () lists immunityinc com>
> Subject: [Dailydave] Latency is a demogorgon
> Message-ID: <71567dae-6b09-6e93-472b-c5642f5baa76 () immunityinc com>
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>
> So every remote access trojan framework has a high level interpreter
> built into it these days. It brings you back to something from that Zero
> Day movie (which we all watched drunk to make it bearable, admit it)
> where a Kaspersky analyst talked about Stuxnet being "Big but amazingly
> BUG FREE". Not having subtle bugs is something you can do much more
> easily in Python/Lua/Ruby/etc than in C/C++. There are other good
> reasons to have a high level language in your RAT system, but that is a
> major one.
>
> One of the other major reasons is that you can push complex logic to the
> endpoint that only lives there temporally. By complex logic, we mean
> full-on exploits. You can drive CANVAS's entire MSRPC libraries inside
> INNUENDO <https://immunityinc.com/products/innuendo/>, without ever
> touching disk. And we often do (MSRPC is still important in the world
> even though the last good public bug was MS08-026).
>
> And this is a good reason to choose Python instead of Lua in your RAT.
> You're going to want to write your exploits in Python. You're going to
> want to run your exploits on the remote side - because of Latency.
>
> Latency is a funny thing. Inside all networking code is a hellish
> mishmash of timeouts, MTUs, retries, and buffers. That mishmash does
> Murphy-law-level chaotic things in the face of what you might consider
> very reasonable network conditions. Sat hops are one second latency
> bombs. Add a couple of those, and a bit of packet loss, and TCP breaks
> down in some hard to debug ways that will drive your exploits from
> "Working \o/" to "Not worky worky sadface". This is hard to emulate on
> VMWare or other software stacks for some reason.
>
> In any case, there are bad things about putting Python in your RAT, but
> one GOOD thing is that no soon-to-be-fired-for-extreme-idiocy operator
> will ever upload an entire package to some random redirector box on the
> Internet to avoid latency issues.
>
> That said, I still lean towards HUMINT being a source for the EQGRP
> leak. It's kinda a happy battle between colossal stupidity and insane
> malice at this point?
>
> -dave
>
> TL;DR: https://twitter.com/itsDanielSuarez/status/764898078663012356
>
>
>
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-- 
Jeffrey Carr (jeffreycarr.com)
CEO, Taia Global, Inc. (taiaglobal.com)
Founder, Suits and Spooks (suitsandspooks.com)
Author, "Inside Cyber Warfare: Mapping the Cyber Underworld" (O'Reilly
Media, 2009, 2011)


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