Re: The Neutron Star

[Fionnbharr <thouth () gmail com>]

But the NSA do help American companies win contracts / do industrial
espionage. One link I have handy is
http://cryptome.org/echelon-ep-fin.htm#10 (scroll down to 10.7 for the
list) which has a short list of known cases from the 90's put out by the
European parliament. Also note that it's countries that the US would
probably consider friendly that they're hacking, not just the main economic
rivals.

It might not be on the same level as the Chinese but it's disingenuous to
suggest American businesses are somehow the innocent bystanders caught in
the cross fire or that there isn't some precedent for this behaviour by the
US.


On 26 June 2013 23:53, Dave Aitel <dave () immunityinc com> wrote:

>  http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2013-06/26/content_16659265.htm
>
> Normally I don't like to stick my toe in the neutron star's gravity well
> that is the NSA-Snowden discussion. But it's important to point out that
> there are developing standards of behavior being negotiated not between
> China and the US, but between corporations and governments as a whole.
>
> Chinese media has been going on for a week about how the Snowden PRISM
> revelations about the US hacking China are in some way equitable to the US
> complaints about Chinese government sponsored hacking for the purposes of
> economic espionage. This is pure public relations nonsense. The complaints
> US industry has about Chinese state sponsored hacking is not that it is
> occurring, but that the fruits of the hacking are being given directly to
> Chinese companies which compete with US (or European, or Korean, etc.)
> companies.
>
> It is impossible as a US company to go to the NSA and say "Hey, my
> competitor in China makes a pretty nice bulldozer, can I have the plans to
> that? Also it'd be nice to know what their bid is on that contract in
> Malaysia we both want to win."
>
> It's just that simple. Company's hate being forced to give information to
> their governments, or trojan their networking equipment (in the case of
> Huawei and ZTE). It's *bad* for business. Especially when you get caught
> or it gets leaked (which it ALWAYS does one way or the other).
>
> But they hate state-sponsored economic espionage more and I hardly think
> Chinese companies would enjoy a change in Washington's tune that allowed US
> companies to employ the full power of the NSA against them.
>
> -dave
>
>
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