Security Basics mailing list archives
RE: [Full-disclosure] SMS Banking
From: "Craig S. Wright" <craig.wright () Information-Defense com>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:16:16 +1100
I will happily do this. That it can be hacked, or will be hacked Anything CAN be hacked. Software first. Choose 100 common software products. I will define scale here first. This will be number of vulnerabilities (new) that are found in each piece of software each month. This will also be related to the common metrics for the level of the vulnerability. This will be for 6 months. Choose the number of vulnerabilities and the impact of each of these for 6 months. It has to be commonly run software with a user base that I cannot count on one hand. My predictions will be for these products and will have a confidence bound set at 95% (or alpha=5%). I further assume that the loser will be financially responsible for the audits done my way. Are you saying that you will pay MY fees when you lose? wont look at the software code When you can get MS to give me their code this may be an issue, but it is not as yet. Regards, ... Dr. Craig S Wright GSE-Malware, GSE-Compliance, LLM, & ... Information Defense Pty Ltd From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:Thor () hammerofgod com] Sent: Wednesday, 10 February 2010 3:59 PM To: craig.wright () Information-Defense com; Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com; 'full-disclosure'; security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] SMS Banking Now youre talking. But first lets work up an actual contract. Neither of your components define anything. When you say that you are going to predict risk with your magic formula, do you mean if the software has vulnerabilities? That it can be hacked, or will be hacked? Be sure to define this properly and definitively if you end up saying that a system has a 1% change of being hacked, and I (or my auditors) hack it, would you claim you were right? I question if you can even define the parameters of this bet, much less apply your formulas, but well see. I also want to know what scale you plan to use. So far, even though Ive asked, youve not provided what the answer to your formula is, or how it will be applied. Im assuming, unless you are going to change your tune which I wouldnt doubt, that you wont look at the software code or threat models, but rather apply your formulas. I further assume that the loser will be financially responsible for the audits done my way. Im more than happy to take your money, and I look forward to doing so. Since one of your masters degrees is in law, Im assuming you can clearly define the terms of the contract. I will, of course, insist upon a contract, and I hope you wont mind that I have my own attorney look it over. Im not immediately trusting of the competence of one with a doctorate degree and multiple masters degrees who cant spell technology or experience correctly on his on-line CV. You are officially on. And Im looking forward to it. t From: Craig S. Wright [mailto:craig.wright () Information-Defense com] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:41 PM To: Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu; Thor (Hammer of God) Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com; 'full-disclosure'; security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] SMS Banking I have a simple answer to this. Forget the debate, rhetoric is not a scientific method of determining truth. Thor wants a challenge, lets have one a real one and not one based on verbalisations, abuse and unfounded assertions. I suggest two components; 1 A selection of software products are tested using both processes, that is I use a model for the risk of these products, and Thor can make up whatever guesses he wishes. We model (or Thor guesses, pulls from a hat...) the vulnerabilities over a time period. The number of bugs in software as well as the risk are to be presented as a monthly estimate. 2 We model a few systems (say 50). We can use Honeypots (real systems set to log all activity without interference) run by an independent party to each of us. I use probabilistic models to calculate the risk. Thor does whatever he wants. Each of the predictions is published by all parties. The one who is most accurate wins. Fairly simple? I will even give a handicap to Thor, I will offer to predict within a 95% confidence interval and that for me to win, at least 90 of the 100 software products and 45 of the 50 systems have to lie within my predicted range that I calculate and release. Thor has to simply guess better than I do no matter how far out he is. I will put up $10,000 Au for my side. Lets see if Thor has something real to offer. Regards, ... Dr. Craig S Wright GSE-Malware, GSE-Compliance, LLM, & ... Information Defense Pty Ltd _____________________________________________ From: Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu [mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu] Sent: Wednesday, 10 February 2010 7:03 AM To: Thor (Hammer of God) Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com; full-disclosure; craig.wright () Information-Defense com Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] SMS Banking * PGP Signed by an unknown key On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:39:39 GMT, "Thor (Hammer of God)" said:
how about accepting a challenge to an open debate on the subject at
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Current thread:
- SMS Banking M.D.Mufambisi (Feb 04)
- Re: SMS Banking Dennis Storm (Feb 05)
- Re: SMS Banking pasquale imperato (Feb 05)
- Re: SMS Banking Budi wibowo (Feb 05)
- Re: SMS Banking Agus 'Bosen' Supriadhie (Feb 05)
- Re: SMS Banking Doug Farre (Feb 05)
- RE: SMS Banking Thor (Hammer of God) (Feb 05)
- Message not available
- Re: SMS Banking Markus Matiaschek (Feb 05)
- RE: SMS Banking Craig S. Wright (Feb 08)
- RE: SMS Banking Thor (Hammer of God) (Feb 08)
- Message not available
- Message not available
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- RE: [Full-disclosure] SMS Banking Craig S. Wright (Feb 10)
- Re: SMS Banking Markus Matiaschek (Feb 05)
- Re: SMS Banking Dennis Li (Feb 08)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: SMS Banking Brad Reaves (Feb 05)
- Re: SMS Banking Tim Clewlow (Feb 08)
- Re: SMS Banking NetEvil (Feb 05)
- FW: SMS Banking Craig S. Wright (Feb 10)