Wireshark mailing list archives
Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs
From: Roland Knall <rknall () gmail com>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 10:47:32 +0000
I am not trying to force users to use anything. The whole idea with dockable windows started from a point to be able to use the exact same layout functionality as today, but with a more comfortable configuration. And I do not think you can compare the layout preferences to your idea. Your idea goes way beyond that. The whole concept of Wireshark is based around a single capture file. And as you already mentioned, this is an issue also for the dockable windows. But it is not solved by the graphical representation, much rather by the representation in memory. The idea to collect windows at one central point is a good one, but I do not think that adopting a new UI concept which is fundamentally different from every other, is not a good idea. The optionality is also a problem for me. If we have a feature with such a big impact, we have to implement it in such a way, that it does not "hide" any open issues. For instance, certain dialogs do not have their own data model, but opt to use the one from the currently open capture file. Some others use their own. Now if I close the capture file, what should be the state of these dialogs? Some will be closed, some might stay open but present an empty view, some others may present their data but not indicate which file it is for, .... As I mentioned before, I really like the idea of using tabs for information. But not for the mainwindow, if the graphical representation of the information is different in such a fundamental way. I applaud every effort to implement multiple capture files, but I really think this goes into the wrong direction. But I am open to be convinced otherwise. kind regards, Roland Am Mo., 7. Mai 2018 um 12:24 Uhr schrieb Michał Łabędzki < michal.tomasz.labedzki () gmail com>:
One last (but important) argument is screen size. A lot of people havebig screens now. The tabbed approach for the main window really only makes sense on smaller screens. Also, I have a big screen, but it is my feature. I really want to collect windows in one place to speed up work (like "where is my window?"). If I need I still can Detach tab and move it to another monitor. "Dockable windows" is also fine, but support multiple capture files will be not comfortable (how to do it?). There is a need to open... at least new window to see packet list, etc. like before. Of course, the option to dock it on the right of the previous packet list is will also nice to have.I think tabs for the main window is the wrong approach and will alienatea lot of users What do you mean by "alienate"? There is already the option that makes users different from another one: Preferences -> Layout. Please do not try to force users to use only one way. What is wrong with tabs those are optional? 2018-05-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Paul Offord <Paul.Offord () advance7 com>:A couple of things I’ve noted. Microsoft Message Analyzer uses tabs inthemain window but I confess I don’t think I’ve used them to look atmultipletraces. Second point, maybe dockable windows would be better. We use Telerik for Workbench and it provides a typical dockable window mechanism. Thismeetsboth needs. If you dock one window on top of another you get tabs. Oryoucan undock a window and move it to another monitor. By the way, I’m not promoting Telerik here, just using it for illustration. Best regards…Paul From: Wireshark-dev <wireshark-dev-bounces () wireshark org> On Behalf Of Roland Knall Sent: 07 May 2018 09:17 To: Developer support list for Wireshark <wireshark-dev () wireshark org> Subject: Re: [Wireshark-dev] Feature: option to open windows as tabs I think before we submit this patch, we should agree on a general UIconceptgoing forward. TL;DR: I think tabs for the main window is the wrong approach and will alienate a lot of users There are basically three main uses for tabs in an application (besidesfrompreference dialogs). The first approach is your basic webbrowser, who displays multiplewebpagesin each individual tab. This actually is something Apple tries to enforce anyway and others do as well, but always the content of the tabs are similar. It is always a webcontent or a textdocument, .... They can be opened and closed individually and do not care about or influence each other. The Wireshark equivalent would be a capture file. IO Graph and the packet list do influence each other deeply, as does the packet list and every other dialog. Now in the second approach (e.g. iTunes or music player application), you may have tabs which present you the same data in a different method(Album,Artists, Playlist, ...). In these cases the tabs are always present,theirview can be toggled, but in reality they are always there. Equivalent in Wireshark would be, that all dialogs are generated on capture file loadandbe always there, but hidden. If tabs are not used for the main window, the usually are being used as utility tabs (see your favorite IDE e.g. QtCreator, Visual Studio,Eclipse,...). This would be the third approach. They present additionalinformationto the main document, a search possibility, graphical representation,....Wireshark's dialogs do not present different, independant data (first approach), but in the most cases an aggregated view (third approach) and sometimes an alternative view (second approach). Therefore, making themtabsto the main window is contradictory (as stated above). Users would have a program which operates very different to other programs they use daily. Making dialogs tabs to a utility window (byte view, packet detail) seems more to be the natural method. And then they can be dockable as well. One last (but important) argument is screen size. A lot of people havebigscreens now. The tabbed approach for the main window really only makessenseon smaller screens. On a big screen tabs do not lead to a betterutilisationof the space, making the work with a lot of tabs more cumbersome. regards Roland Am So., 6. Mai 2018 um 09:37 Uhr schrieb Paul Offord <Paul.Offord () advance7 com>:I *think* Windows DLLs may also function as shared libraries.They do. One instance in RAM mapped into the virtual address space ofanyprocess referencing the DLL. -----Original Message----- From: Wireshark-dev <wireshark-dev-bounces () wireshark org> On Behalf OfGuyHarris Sent: 05 May 2018 19:25 To: Developer support list for Wireshark <wireshark-dev () wireshark org> Subject: Re: [Wireshark-dev] Feature: option to open windows as tabs On May 5, 2018, at 10:04 AM, Peter Wu <peter () lekensteyn nl> wrote:Memory usage will probably suck due to exact copies of the process,On most if not all UN*Xes, the executable image's code and read-onlydata,and libwireshark's/libwiretap's/libwsutil's code and read-only data,shouldbe shared between all of the processes. You won't, however, share the results of reading in configuration files, e.g. the new fields added by reading in the RADIUS and DIAMETER dictionaries... ...unless they're read in by the UI process, and handed to the dissector processes as (read-only) shared memory. I *think* Windows DLLs may also function as shared libraries.___________________________________________________________________________Sent via: Wireshark-dev mailing list <wireshark-dev () wireshark org> Archives: https://www.wireshark.org/lists/wireshark-dev Unsubscribe: https://www.wireshark.org/mailman/options/wireshark-dev mailto:wireshark-dev-request () wireshark org?subject=unsubscribe______________________________________________________________________ This message contains confidential information and is intended only fortheindividual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake anddeletethis e-mail from your system. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Advance Seven Ltd. 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For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Sent via: Wireshark-dev mailing list <wireshark-dev () wireshark org> Archives: https://www.wireshark.org/lists/wireshark-dev Unsubscribe: https://www.wireshark.org/mailman/options/wireshark-dev mailto:wireshark-dev-request () wireshark org?subject=unsubscribe -- Michał Łabędzki ___________________________________________________________________________ Sent via: Wireshark-dev mailing list <wireshark-dev () wireshark org> Archives: https://www.wireshark.org/lists/wireshark-dev Unsubscribe: https://www.wireshark.org/mailman/options/wireshark-dev mailto:wireshark-dev-request () wireshark org ?subject=unsubscribe
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Current thread:
- Feature: option to open windows as tabs Michał Łabędzki (May 05)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Peter Wu (May 05)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Guy Harris (May 05)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Paul Offord (May 06)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Roland Knall (May 07)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Paul Offord (May 07)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Michał Łabędzki (May 07)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Roland Knall (May 07)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Guy Harris (May 05)
- Re: Feature: option to open windows as tabs Peter Wu (May 05)