FC: Partial transcript of Ashcroft's "Bill? What Bill?" testimony

[Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>]

---

From: "Meeks, Brock (MSNBCi)" <Brock.Meeks () MSNBC COM>
To: "'bbright () kyol net'" <bbright () kyol net>, declan () well com
Subject: RE: FC: Ashcroft tells Congress that Patriot Act II is a ghost, f
        rom IP
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:10:19 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0

The text below is the verbatim from the Federal Document Clearing House 
that does transcription services for congressional hearings.  Other than 
this, I don't know where it might be online.

ASHCROFT:  Senator, with your permission, I'd like to respond to
the suggestion that there is a PATRIOT Act II.  When individuals
indicate to you that if there is a proposal, we'll confer with you, I
believe they are right.  There is not a proposed Terrorist Act II from
the Justice Department.  No final discussion has been made with the
attorney general about proposals.  No final discussion has been made
with the administration about proposals.

   Now, let me just say that we constantly are thinking of things
that ought to be considered.  And we believe that it's in the interest
of the country that we think expansively and that we have a thorough
and clear debate about them considering the pluses and the minuses.
And we don't believe that it's appropriate to never mention anything
unless it's already been decided that it's totally OK.  You can't do
that; consideration requires that.

   So if someone leaks the fact that there are items under
consideration, that does not mean -- or that there is a matter of
discussion -- that doesn't mean anything out of the ordinary.  I hope
that characterizes the fact that we are constantly considering how to
improve.

   I want to assure you that there has been no bill, no proposal
decided on.  I am keenly aware that the administration cannot pass
legislation.  Only members of the Congress can pass legislation.  It
would be the height of absurdity for me to have a secret matter that I
hope to make a law without telling Congress.  I mean, I simply don't
understand that.

   So we will confer.  But I will prefer, if I can, to weed out
things that I believe are inappropriate before I come to the Congress
with an idea.

   FEINGOLD:  General, I really urge you to do that.

   And let me just say that you know my view that the last time we
had a USA PATRIOT Act that the kind of discussion and airing of the
issues certainly did not happen.  It's a debate about whether it could
have happened.  I appreciate your commitment to it happening in this
case.  And the fact is, there are some specific proposals or possible
proposals out there.  I don't think it's too early for people, like
you and me and others, to start discussion whether they're a good
idea.

   And I'm wondering if you could respond to my specific question,
in the seconds I have, which is can you cite an example of a terrorist
plot that went undetected because local police had their hands tied by
consent decree of placing limits on their domestic spying
capabilities?

   ASHCROFT:  I cannot.

   FEINGOLD:  Thank you, General.

   And of course, I look forward to discussing these provisions and,
perhaps, we could follow up with a conversation about the items that
we saw, at least in this draft, whatever this draft is.  There's
enough items there that people are raising concerns about that the
conversations and consultations should begin now, in my view.

   ASHCROFT:  Well, I don't believe that I should start to consult
and defend things which I believe are indefensible or not a part of
something that I would seek to propose.  I guess that's my view.

   Until I have something that I think is appropriate, I don't know
that I should engage in some discussion about something that we don't
believe is appropriate.  We could agree on a lot of these things that,
hey, those don't belong in our discussion.

-----Original Message-----
From: bbright () kyol net [<mailto:bbright () kyol net>mailto:bbright () kyol net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:20 AM
To: declan () well com; Brock.Meeks () MSNBC COM
Subject: Re: FC: Ashcroft tells Congress that Patriot Act II is a ghost, 
from IP

is this online anywhere?

bb

On 5 Mar 2003 at 8:29, Declan McCullagh wrote:

Date sent:              Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:29:25 -0500
To:                     politech () politechbot com
From:                   Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
Subject:                FC: Ashcroft tells Congress that Patriot Act II is 
a ghost, from IP
Send reply to:          declan () well com


------ Forwarded Message
From: "Meeks, Brock (MSNBCi)" <Brock.Meeks () MSNBC COM>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:23:30 -0800
To: "'dave () farber net'" <dave () farber net>
Subject: Ashcroft: Patriot II is a ghost

Sen. Russ Feingold just a few minutes ago during a hearing this
morning on Homeland Security asked Atty. Gen. Ashcroft why he hadn't
come to Congress to discuss provision of the "Patriot Act II."

Ashcroft replied, categorically, that "there is no Patriot Act II.
That said, it doesn't mean that we aren't constantly thinking and
discussing how to make things better, safer," Ashcroft said.  "So if
there are some leaks... it's about what we've been thinking," Ashcroft
said.

"There has been no bill decided on, no proposal decided on," Ashcroft
said.  "It would be the height of absurdity to have a bill I want to
make law without informing Congress first."

Feingold wasn't buying what Ashcroft was saying.  "Well, there is
something out there," Feingold shot back, "and I'd appreciate you
coming to Congress first."

Ashcroft finished off saying that "Until I think we have something
appropriate" to discuss "I don't think we should engage in debate on
something until it's appropriate."


------ End of Forwarded Message






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