Politech mailing list archives
FC: More on Ad Council ads, librarians, and anarchist Chuck0
From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 10:15:41 -0400
Previous Politech message: http://www.politechbot.com/p-03863.html --- Subject: RE: Ad Council creates pro-liberty advertisements (very good) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:51:33 -0500 From: "Connie Jo Ozinga" <cjo () elkhart lib in us> To: <declan () well com>Those of us in the library community find the pro-liberty ad in which the young man is approached by unidentified security types after asking for particular library book interesting, particularly in light of the fact that the Patriot's Act allows the FBI to access any library records on demand (books checked out, computer sites visited...), AND forbids library employees from telling anyone that such information has been provided in response to the demands.
I find this far more chilling that the unlikely future projected in the ad. ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director Elkhart Public Library Elkhart, Indiana ¤º°`°º¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸ --- From: [deleted] To: "'declan () well com'" <declan () well com> Subject: RE: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly hypocritic al!" Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:46:29 -0400 The ads (most of them) are excellent.Someone tell Chuck that the point is to persuade people that it is a bad thing to have feds snoop in libraries, arrest people for the wrong reading material, and generally suppress speech. Then maybe it will be easier to stop existing abuses.
--- Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 12:38:27 -0400 From: "Paul Levy" <PLEVY () citizen org> To: <politech () politechbot com>, <chuck () tao ca>, <declan () well com> Subject: "Incredibly hypocritical!" Why consider them hypocritical? Why not think of them as timely warnings! Paul Alan Levy Public Citizen Litigation Group 1600 - 20th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 588-1000 http://www.citizen.org/litigation/litigation.html --- Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:44:31 -0500Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly hypocritical!"
From: Aaron Swartz <me () aaronsw com> To: chuck () tao ca, declan () well com On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 11:05 AM, Declan McCullagh wrote:
These PSAs are really wacked out. They are supposed to be fictional depictions of life in a country other than the U.S., but they are incredibly hypocritical!
I thought the point was they were supposed to be depicting what the US was turning into. The country sure looked like the US to me... and "What if America wasn't America?"
-- Aaron Swartz [http://www.aaronsw.com] I am large, I contain multitudes. --- Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly hypocritical!" (CONFIDENTIAL) From: Creede Lambard To: declan () well com Date: 08 Aug 2002 10:56:18 -0700 (If you decide to print this please don't use my email address. Thank you.) Declan, I'm sure I'm not the first person to point out that perhaps Chuck0 has missed the point of the Ad Council campaign. It looked to me like the ads were painting a picture of what life could be like in the United States for the average citizen if some of the laws Congress is now considering pass. He does have a point that this happens already with certain reading materials. However, the problem is more widespread than suburban youth reading anarchist samizdat as they wait to board a plane. Other literature seems to also be grounds for arrest, or at least suspicion, in this day and age. The Koran comes immediately to mind. I interpreted these ads as an attempt to make Joe and Jane Average American think of what might happen if we really do lock down this country. If the make a few people reconsider those "incredibly hypocritical" views Chuck0 perceives, perhaps they're worth the effort. --- From: schew () interzone com (Steve Chew) Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly To: declan () well com Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:56:25 -0400 (EDT) I have to wonder whether Chuck0 saw a different version of the ads. I saw the "Library" one the other day on TV and watched it again on the Ad Council site (http://www.adcouncil.org/campaigns/campaign_for_freedom/). It was completely obvious that all of the ads were about the U.S., and what could happen if people do not, as the ad said, cherish freedom and protect it. The ads were not "fictional depictions of life in a country other than the U.S." While Chuck0 has a point that these things have been happening to a limited extent already that does not detract from the value of an ad which points out these problems. If people take these ads to heart then they will begin to see when the government acts the opposite way. Personally, I found the "Library" ad to be chilling and it may be effective enough to make a few people think. I hope they make more. Steve --- Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:41:41 -0400 From: Nick Bretagna <onemug () gdn net> Reply-To: afn41391 () afn org To: chuck () tao ca CC: declan () well com Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly hypocritical!" Declan McCullagh wrote:
Chuck is a reasonably prominent anarchist in the Washington DC area: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=chuck0 Previous Politech message: http://www.politechbot.com/p-03859.html
OK, is the Ad Council a government body? It appeared to me that it was privately funded. The complaints Chuck has appear to be against the government, and I fully concur, they are good ones. ...But unless the Ad Council is a government body, this stuff is hardly hypocritical. I'm sure the government has some input into these things, yeah, but by all signs, they aren't a government agency.
These ads, if anything, might at least get people to thinking about those things, something the sheeple have gotten quite complacent about in the last 20+ years.
Whereas it used to be unthinkable that Soviet-style informants would be suggested, we now have TIPS, and it's being advocated by the Teamsters, no less.
Children are turning in their parents for drug use, your bank accounts are being routinely monitored, and you can have any and all your property seized if they have any evidence at all of association with the production and distribution of drugs or just about anything "they" don't like.
I expect pretty soon three parking tickets will constitute racketeering under the RICO statutes...
... Oh, and, did I mention that "Your Identity Papers, Please?" is threatening to become an American standard?
All this is because of sheeplike acquiescence to government intrusions. I seriously doubt if these ads will ever be seen by most people -- certainly they will have far less prominance than the bullshit "Earthshare" ones that AC runs... but I certainly laud ANYTHING that makes even a few of the sheep pull their noses out of the feedbags and go, "HEY! That's baaaaaaaad...!".
...and no, I don't belong to any militias, nor do I own any guns. You don't have to be a froth-at-the-mouth nutball to see undesirable trends, especially not ones as far advanced as these.
:-/"There is no week, nor day, nor hour, when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their supreme confidence in themselves - and lose their roughness and spirit of defiance."
- Walt Whitman - -- ------- --------- ------- -------- ------- ------- ------- Nicholas Bretagna II mailto:afn41391 () afn org --- Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:53:25 -0400 From: Chuck Munson <chuck () tao ca> To: Aaron Swartz <me () aaronsw com> Cc: declan () well com Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly hypocritical!" Aaron Swartz wrote: > > On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 11:05 AM, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > These PSAs are really wacked out. They are supposed to be fictional > > depictions of life in a country other than the U.S., but they are > > incredibly hypocritical! > > I thought the point was they were supposed to be depicting what the US > was turning into. The country sure looked like the US to me... and > "What if America wasn't America?" Well, I'm kind of wondering that myself. Are these PSAs a warning about Ashcroft's America? << Chuck0 >> Personal homepage -> http://flag.blackened.net/chuck0/home/index.html Infoshop.org -> http://www.infoshop.org/ Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/ Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/ Anarchy: AJODA -> http://www.anarchymag.org/ MutualAid.org -> http://www.mutualaid.org/ Factsheet 5 -> http://www.factsheet5.org/ AIM: AgentHelloKitty --- Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 17:42:33 -0400 From: Chuck Munson <chuck () tao ca> Cc: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com> Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly hypocritical!" > > > I think they're being subversive -- get your digs in at Ashcroft/PATRIOT > -- not hypocritical. > Yes, after exchanging several emails today with other folks, I'm starting to see this. I'll have to watch the other PSAs. << Chuck0 >> Personal homepage -> http://flag.blackened.net/chuck0/home/index.html Infoshop.org -> http://www.infoshop.org/ Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/ Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/ Anarchy: AJODA -> http://www.anarchymag.org/ MutualAid.org -> http://www.mutualaid.org/ Factsheet 5 -> http://www.factsheet5.org/ AIM: AgentHelloKitty ---- Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:09:10 -0700 From: David Alban <extasia () mindspring com> To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly hypocritical!"
At 2002/08/08/12:05 -0400 Declan McCullagh <declan () well com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:51:07 -0400 > From: Chuck Munson <chuck () tao ca> > Subject: Ad Council creates pro-liberty advertisements (very good) > For example, the "Library" PSA shows a young guy asking for a book from a > librarian, who informs him that it is no longer available and then asks > him why he wants to read it. They pan the library and all these government > agents pop out of hiding. They say truth is stranger than fiction... On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:16:29 -0400, Declan sent to politech the following URL: http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml about a young man pulled out of a line in an airport and denied permission to board his flight because of a book he was reading. On the cover of the book, Hayduke Lives! by Edward Abbey, is an illustration of a mans hand holding several sticks of dynamite. The 1991 novel is about a radical environmentalist, George Washington Hayduke III, who blows up bridges, burns tractors and sabotages other projects he believes are destroying the beautiful Southwest landscape. "For the first time, it occurred to me the book may be a problem," Godfrey [the young man in the airport line] recalls. He proceeded through the security checkpoint and sat down to read near his boarding gate. About 10 minutes had passed when a National Guardsman approached Godfrey. "He told me to step aside," Godfrey says. "Then he took my book and asked me why I was reading it." Within minutes, Godfrey says, Philadelphia Police officers, Pennsylvania State Troopers and airport security officials joined the National Guardsman. About 10 to 12 people examined the novel for 45 minutes, scratching out notes the entire time. They also questioned Godfrey about the purpose of his trip to Phoenix. David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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