Politech mailing list archives
FC: More on LAPD and illegal wiretaps
From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 09:42:04 -0600
[I worked on Jerry Brown's presidental campaign in Santa Monica in 1992, which was not long after the Rodney King beating. I remember one popular t-shirt design in the campaign HQ then (I still have mine somewhere): "LAPD: We Treat You Like A King." --Declan] ********* Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:23:16 -0700 From: Lizard <lizard () dnai com> To: declan () well com, politech () vorlon mit edu Subject: Re: FC: Illegal LAPD wiretaps -- for shame! by John Gilmore : : : It is fairly obvious how the police, and their lapdog media allies, will play this:'We put thousands of violent criminals away, saving countless lives, and all the namby-pamby ACLU lawyers and their cyber-anarchist friends can do is whine and sob and cry about how this t wasn't crossed and that i wasn't dotted. Well, if they lived here on the mean streets of South Central instead in their New York Penthouse or Silicon Valley mansions, they'd be cheering every time we put some scumbag behind bars! They don't have to be the ones to tell a five year old girl Mommy was killed in a drug shootout, and the guy who did it was on the street because there was no 'evidence' to convict him!' I *guarantee* you will see not one, but several, stories/editorials along those lines in the near future. The reply to this line of 'reasoning' however, is very old and remains irrefutable to this day:Those who exchange essential liberty for temporary security shall have neither liberty nor security. B. Franklin. ********* From: John_David_Galt () acm org Received: from gate1.tomatoweb.com (gate1.tomatoweb.com [209.63.137.5]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA23777 for <declan () well com>; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acm.org ([209.63.57.247]) by gate1.tomatoweb.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-43988U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA294; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:12:47 -0700 Message-ID: <37F40C72.7206A0B5 () acm org> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:20:50 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnu () toad com, declan () well com I think the root of this problem is that both individual cops, and their agencies, are immune to any legal action (civil or criminal) under the state constitution, even when they act in bad faith as they did here. And the same is true of public officials. Would anyone be interested in floating a ballot initiative to repeal that provision? It would take a two-thirds vote, but I think there have been enough abuses that just maybe it could be done. I'm not suggesting that they be judged by the same standard as ordinary people using force. (While that would be a nice ideal, I can't see it as possible anytime soon.) The way I would write it, the only remedy a court could award would be injunctive relief, unless the jury found that the official knowingly misused or exceeded his authority (i.e. malice). But if there is malice, the official would get the same sentence as if you or I did the same thing, and would be barred from office for life. John David Galt ********* Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 00:31:57 -0500 To: declan () well com From: "Matthew G. Saroff" <msaroff () pobox com> Subject: Re: FC: Illegal LAPD wiretaps -- for shame! by John Gilmore In-Reply-To: <19991001000732.IRGZ7282 () alaptop hotwired com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-UIDL: b59ca81d1c60de880c0dc7c15d8fcc96 At 06:07 PM 9/30/99 -0600, you wrote:
The LAPD's actions are reprehensible. The cops and prosecutors including Gil Garcetti who are involved should be -- if the facts are as they appear below -- tarred and feathered, or at least put in prison for the rest of their lives, far away from any position of public responsibility. It is wrong when any citizen violates the rights of another, but terribly, exponentially wrong when an official in a position of authority does it. For shame!
Hi, They should be put in prison for about 30 months. Of course, this time should be served in a maximum security penitentiary among the people that they sent up. -- --Matthew Saroff ********* Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:18:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Zippy <sjdyer () cs twsu edu> To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com> Subject: Re: FC: Illegal LAPD wiretaps -- for shame! by John Gilmore In-Reply-To: <19991001000732.IRGZ7282 () alaptop hotwired com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991001071241.25659A-100000 () kira cs twsu edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-UIDL: 37ea82176c6cf5a2d81b04ee8204e1c1 Well--so much for the "reformed" LAPD, huh? While illegal wiretapping is a crime, there isn't much chance that any of them will see jail time, unless the political heat is too strong. The system protects its own. In an odd way, we can actually thank them--their continual reckless arrogance sheds light on abusive practices everywhere, in particular the longstanding practice of inventing drug crimes to seize assets. ********* From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii () openpgp net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:11:12 -0500 To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com> In-Reply-To: <19991001000732.IRGZ7282 () alaptop hotwired com> Cc: politech () vorlon mit edu Subject: Re: FC: Illegal LAPD wiretaps -- for shame! by John Gilmore X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.66 b66 X-UIDL: 99e056e5cae189c0edecec55147ba72e In <19991001000732.IRGZ7282 () alaptop hotwired com>, on 09/30/99 at 06:07 PM, Declan McCullagh <declan () well com> said:
The LAPD's actions are reprehensible. The cops and prosecutors including Gil Garcetti who are involved should be -- if the facts are as they appear below -- tarred and feathered, or at least put in prison for the rest of their lives, far away from any position of public responsibility. It is wrong when any citizen violates the rights of another, but terribly, exponentially wrong when an official in a position of authority does it. For shame!
Yes but the mass murderers Bill Clinton, Janet Reno, and Louis Freeh are all still in power, I see little hope that any of those guilty of crimes against the population of LA will ever be punished. ******** -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo () vorlon mit edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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- FC: More on LAPD and illegal wiretaps Declan McCullagh (Oct 01)