Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939

[Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke () gmail com>]

The inverse of that is that an actual wavelength for 10/100G services can
be contractually defined to a certain specific path at OSI layer 1 (with
GIS vector shape files from the underlying carrier provided prior to
signing a contract). Whereas a layer 2 transport service could also turn
out to be unprotected, if it's a particularly low cost service.

Or it could be protected. And you might not have the ability to define its
path between city A and city B to intentionally avoid being non-diverse
from another route.

The L2 lit service carrier could re-route it around the region however they
want during the term of your service, if the contract isn't written to
avoid that.

In my experience actual wavelengths such as a carrier might use to
transport an STM64 between two places on far sides of a state, even
non-protected, will be considerably more expensive than buying lit L2
service. For small ISPs where their entire presence at an IX will fit in
one or two 10Gbps circuits, and a 100Gbps circuit from $smalltown to
$bigcity_ix_point would be cost prohibitive, it's often the best option.



On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:08 PM Darin Steffl <darin.steffl () mnwifi com>
wrote:

> The downside to waves are that they're typically not protected. So a cut
> will take you down. If you have 10G Layer 2 ethernet, they often will have
> redundant paths so the only single path that can fail is between you and
> their first POP where they hopefully have redundancy. It can make a big
> difference when you're transporting data hundreds or thousands of miles.
> The longer the path, the less reliable the wave will be as each route mile
> opens you up to more risk.
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:25 PM Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote:
>
> > I suppose it depends on your carrier and their capabilities.
> >
> > I much prefer waves to any kind of service that you can aggregate. Being
> > able to aggregate just means they're going to oversubscribe you and at some
> > point, you'll not get what you're paying for. Can't do that on a wave.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuhnke () gmail com>
> > *To: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" <lists () packetflux com>
> > *Cc: *"nanog list" <nanog () nanog org>
> > *Sent: *Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:25:46 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
> >
> > For small ISPs looking at setting up their first ever presence at an IX
> > point, you almost certainly would not be ordering an actual 'wave' (eg: a
> > specific DWDM channel on a legacy 10G DWDM platform, handed off to you with
> > 1310/LX interfaces at both ends), but lit layer 2 transport service between
> > the carrier hotel and your service location.
> >
> > Pricing for the two types of service can be quite different when you
> > request an actual 'wave' from a carrier sales person, vs just lit L2
> > transport capable of large MTUs, QinQ, etc.
> >
> > The ISP carrying it might take it between those two places as simply a
> > vlan trunked through a larger 100G link, as a MPLS circuit, lots of
> > possible things.
> >
> > Unless you happened to be in a happy conjunction of the right place at
> > the right time, and an older DWDM system on exactly the same path you
> > wanted happened to have an empty channel and ready to go interface cards at
> > both ends.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> > lists () packetflux com> wrote:
> >
> > > Generally one would order a circuit (aka wave) between your location and
> > > the IX fabric at the interchange if you're not at the site you're wanting
> > > to peer at.
> > >
> > > For instance, the network I am the network engineer for has a circuit
> > > which terminates into the Seattle IX (SIX) fabric.   We don't have any
> > > other presence in Seattle (or Washington for that matter) at this point -
> > > our circuit connects directly to our port on the Exchange.   We're
> > > considering adding a similar link to another exchange point somewhere to
> > > the east or southeast of us.   I haven't looked at the graphs recently, but
> > > it's not uncommon for >50% of our traffic to come from the exchange.   And
> > > yes, we're peered with Hurricane and others there.
> > >
> > > We're also looking at dropping 1U or so of equipment in so we can pick
> > > up some transit as well, but that's a story for a different day about the
> > > joys of providing internet in the less populated parts of the country.
> > >
> > > In your case, it also looks like there are also some peering options at
> > > the datacenters you are currently at as well.   You may want to do some
> > > more research to determine how that might work in your situation.
> > >  PeeringDB is a good resource along with google searches for "peering 100
> > > Taylor" or "peering austin data foundry"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 9:51 PM <aaron1 () gvtc com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Don’t you have to be there to join?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’m in Austin and San Antonio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Aaron
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net>
> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2020 7:20 PM
> > > > *To:* Aaron Gould <aaron1 () gvtc com>
> > > > *Cc:* nanog () nanog org
> > > > *Subject:* Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://bgp.he.net/AS16527
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You don't appear to be on any IXes. Definitely join some IXes before
> > > > buying another 100G of transit.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DFW has a couple and there are some more that are starting up.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > Mike Hammett
> > > > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> > > > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> > > > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > > > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> > > > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > > > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> > > > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > *From: *"Aaron Gould" <aaron1 () gvtc com>
> > > > *To: *nanog () nanog org
> > > > *Sent: *Tuesday, October 13, 2020 6:29:55 PM
> > > > *Subject: *Hurricane Electric AS6939
> > > >
> > > > Do y’all like HE for Internet uplink?  I’m thinking about using them
> > > > for 100gig in Texas.  It would be for my eyeballs ISP.  We currently have
> > > > Spectrum, Telia and Cogent.
> > > >
> > > > -Aaron
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Forrest
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>