nanog mailing list archives
Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?)
From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka () seacom mu>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 15:40:04 +0200
On 22/Jun/20 14:49, Masataka Ohta wrote:
But, it should be noted that a single class B...
CIDR - let's not teach the kids old news :-).
If you have 1000 PEs, you should be serving for somewhere around 1000 customers.
It's not linear. We probably have 1 edge router serving several-thousand customers.
And, if I understand BGP-MP correctly, all the routing information of all the customers is flooded by BGP-MP in the ISP.
Yes, best practice is in iBGP. Some operators may still be using an IGP for this. It would work, but scales poorly.
Then, it should be a lot better to let customer edges encapsulate L2 or L3 over IP, with which, routing information within customers is exchanged by customer provided VPN without requiring extra overhead of maintaining customer local routing information by the ISP.
You mean like IP-in-IP or GRE? That already happens today, without any intervention from the ISP.
If a customer want customer-specific SLA, it can be described as SLA between customer edge routers, for which, intra-ISP MPLS may or may not be used.
l2vpn's and l3vpn's attract a higher SLA because the services are mostly provisioned on-net. If an off-net component exists, it would be via a trusted NNI partner. Regular IP or GRE tunnels don't come with these kinds of SLA's because the ISP isn't involved, and the B-end would very likely be off-net with no SLA guarantees between the A-end customer's ISP and the remote ISP hosting the B-end.
For the ISP, it can be as profitable as PE-based VRF solutions, because customers so relying on ISPs will let the ISP provide and maintain customer edges.
There are few ISP's who would be able to terminate an IP or GRE tunnel on-net, end-to-end. And even then, they might be reluctant to offer any SLA's because those tunnels are built on the CPE, typically outside of their control.
The only difference should be on profitability for router makers, which want to make routing system as complex as possible or even a lot more than that to make backbone routers a lot profitable product.
If ISP's didn't make money from MPLS/VPN's, router vendors would not be as keen on adding the capability in their boxes.
Label stack was there, because of, now recognized to be wrong, statement of Yakov on day one and I can see no reason still to keep it.
Label stacking is fundamental to the "MP" part of MPLS. Whether your payload is IP, ATM, Ethernet, Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, e.t.c., the ability to stack labels is what makes an MPLS network payload agnostic. There is value in that. Mark.
Current thread:
- Re: Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?, (continued)
- Re: Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why? Dorian Kim (Jun 19)
- why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Randy Bush (Jun 19)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 20)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Robert Raszuk (Jun 20)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Mark Tinka (Jun 21)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 21)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Mark Tinka (Jun 21)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 21)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Robert Raszuk (Jun 21)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 22)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Mark Tinka (Jun 22)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 23)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Owen DeLong (Jun 23)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 24)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Nick Hilliard (Jun 22)
- RE: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) adamv0025 (Jun 22)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Mark Tinka (Jun 22)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 23)
- BGP flooding Robert Raszuk (Jun 23)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Mark Tinka (Jun 21)
- Re: why am i in this handbasket? (was Devil's Advocate - Segment Routing, Why?) Masataka Ohta (Jun 22)