Re: The Real AI Threat?

["J. Hellenthal via NANOG" <nanog () nanog org>]

Let me know when a program will rewrite itself and add its own features ... then we may have a problem... otherwise 
they only do what you want them to do.

-- 
 J. Hellenthal

The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.

> On Dec 10, 2020, at 12:41, Mel Beckman <mel () beckman org> wrote:
>
> 
> > > Jeez... some guys seem to take a joke literally - while ignoring a real and present danger - which was the point.
>
> Miles,
>
> With all due respect, you didn’t present this as a joke. You presented "AI self-healing systems gone wild” as a 
> genuine risk. Which it isn’t. In fact, AI fear mongering is a seriously debilitating factor in technology policy, 
> where policymakers and pundits — who also don’t get “the joke” — lobby for silly laws and make ridiculous 
> predictions, such as Elon Musks claim that, by 2025, “AI will be where AI conscious and vastly smarter than humans.”
>
> That’s the kind of ignorance that will waste billions of dollars. No joke.
>
>  -mel
>
>
>
> > > On Dec 10, 2020, at 8:47 AM, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman () meetinghouse net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ahh.... invasive spambots, running on OpenStack ... "the telephone bell is tolling... "
> > >
> > > Miles
> > >
> > > adamv0025 () netconsultings com wrote:
> > > > Automated resource discovery + automated resource allocation = recipe for disaster
> > > That is literally how OpenStack works. 
> > >  
> > > For now, don’t worry about AI taking away your freedom on its own, rather worry about how people using it might…
> > >  
> > >  
> > > adam
> > >  
> > > From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+adamv0025=netconsultings.com () nanog org> On Behalf Of Miles Fidelman
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 2:44 PM
> > > To: 'NANOG' <nanog () nanog org>
> > > Subject: Re: The Real AI Threat?
> > >  
> > > adamv0025 () netconsultings com wrote:
> > > > Put them together, and the nightmare scenario is:
> > > > - machine learning algorithm detects need for more resources
> > > All good so far
> > >  
> > > > - machine learning algorithm makes use of vulnerability analysis library 
> > > > to find other systems with resources to spare, and starts attaching
> > > > those resources
> > > Right so a company would built, trained and fine-tuned an AI, or would have bought such a product and implemented 
> > > it as part of its NMS/DDoS mitigation suite, to do the above? 
> > > What is the probability of anyone thinking that to be a good idea?
> > > To me that does sound like an AI based virus rather than a tool one would want to develop or buy from a third party 
> > > and then integrate into the day to day operations.
> > >  
> > > You can’t take for instance alpha-0 or GPT-3 and make it do the above. You’d have to train it to do so over 
> > > millions of examples and trials. 
> > > Oh and also these won’t “wake up” one day and “think” to themselves oh I’m fed up with Atari games I’m going to 
> > > learn myself some chess and then do some reading on wiki about the chess rules. 
> > >
> > > Jeez... some guys seem to take a joke literally - while ignoring a real and present danger - which was the point.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile, yes, I think that a poorly ENGINEERED DDoS mitigation suite might well have failure modes that just keep 
> > > eating up resources until systems start crashing all over the place.  Heck, spinning off processes until all 
> > > available resources have been exhausted has been a failure mode of systems for years.  Automated resource discovery 
> > > + automated resource allocation = recipe for disaster.  (No need for AIs eating the world.)
> > >
> > > Miles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> > > In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
> > >  
> > > Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. 
> > > Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. 
> > > In our lab, theory and practice are combined: 
> > > nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> > In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
> >
> > Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. 
> > Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. 
> > In our lab, theory and practice are combined: 
> > nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown