Re: Leasing /22

[Ryan Gard <ryangard () gmail com>]

The biggest problems that start to run with cases of CGN or any other v4
aggregation method are services that still continue to treat single IP
addresses as a single entity (a certain event ticket vendor comes to mind).
Until these organizations either start opening a line of communications
with ISPs, changing their methodology when handling traffic from v4
addresses, and/or deploying v6, the song and dance for v4 addressing will
continue.

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Lee Howard <lee () asgard org> wrote:

> From:  Michael Crapse <michael () wi-fiber io>
> Date:  Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:27 PM
> To:  Mark Andrews <marka () isc org>
> Cc:  Lee Howard <lee () asgard org>, NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Subject:  Re: Leasing /22
>
> > Customers on ps4s and xboxes will hate you. They will always get
> "strict" nat,
> > and it's your fault not mega corporation X's fault for not releasing
> IPv4s
>
> Maybe. You don’t have to configure strict NAT on your translator (DS-Lite’s
> pretty good at this, and although I’m a few weeks away from testing
> consoles
> through 464xlat and MAP, they should work, too). And their NAT workarounds
> are pretty sophisticated now.
>
> There comes a point when winning your customers’ love isn’t profitable. I
> don’t know if that point is $16/address for you, or $30, or $40, or $90.
> Maybe it varies, depending on the customer.
>
> That’s why I suggested in “TCO of CGN”[1] that everyone figure out for
> themselves how much money you might lose to unhappy customers via CGN, and
> compare it to how much addresses cost, and at what price point you might
> turn around and sell addresses. My findings then, based on assumptions that
> almost certainly are not true for any particular network, and which may
> have
> changed, suggest that buying addresses still makes sense.
>
>
> Lee
>
> [1] http://ipv6.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2025
>
>
> > On 22 January 2018 at 15:23, Mark Andrews <marka () isc org> wrote:
> > > Add to that CGN from RFC 6598 addresses (100.64/10) + IPv6 though that
> > > reaches its limit at ~4M customers.
> > >
> > > Native IPv4 with a GUA to customers is essentially unavailable for new
> > > ISPs.  It’s a matter of picking which flavour of NAT you and your
> > > customers are going to use.  The sooner ALL ISP’s provide IPv6 to their
> > > customers the sooner we restore delivering the Internet to the
> customers.
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > > > On 23 Jan 2018, at 9:05 am, Lee Howard <lee () asgard org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > IPv6 still solves your problem if you add any of NAT64, DS-Lite,
> 464xlat,
> > > > > MAP-T, MAP-E.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, you’re NATing, but only the traffic to places like Hulu, and it
> will
> > > > > decrease over time. And while you need addresses for the outside of
> the
> > > > > translator, you don’t need as many (or to get more as frequently).
> > > > >
> > > > > Lee
> > > > >
> > > > > On 1/20/18, 10:20 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Mike Hammett"
> > > > > <nanog-bounces () nanog org on behalf of nanog () ics-il net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > It's not really scraping the bottom of the barrel if your
> customers are
> > > > > > > using Hulu and they're complaining because Hulu isn't responsive to
> > > > > > > fixing their problems (geo-location, v6, etc.).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----
> > > > > > > Mike Hammett
> > > > > > > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > > > > > > http://www.ics-il.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Midwest-IX
> > > > > > > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: "Ca By" <cb.list6 () gmail com>
> > > > > > > To: "Michael Crapse" <michael () wi-fiber io>
> > > > > > > Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog () nanog org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 9:54:23 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Leasing /22
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 5:48 PM Michael Crapse <
> michael () wi-fiber io>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Has Hulu, or a thousand other content distributors considered
> IPv6?
> > > > > > > > > Because
> > > > > > > > > you can't even tunnel to ipv4 without setting off VPN alarms with
> > > > > > HULU.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hulu? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel of content
> providers that
> > > > > > > dont use ipv6 these days.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Netflix and Youtube support v6 ... and thousand of others
> (thousands
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > on Cloudflare where v6 is default on)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > About 80% of my traffic is native e2e v6, mostly google / youtube
> / fb /
> > > > > > > netflix / apple / amazon — but your mix may vary.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 19 January 2018 at 18:38, Andrew Kirch <trelane () trelane net>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 4:59 PM Ryan Gard <ryangard () gmail com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > We're on the hunt yet again for an additional /22 to lease,
> and
> are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wondering what the best options are out there?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Our usual suspects that we've reached out to in the past
> seem to
> be
> > > > > > > > > plum
> > > > > > > > > > > > > out... Any recommendations?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Gard
> > > > > > > > > > > Have you considered IPv6?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 <tel:%2B61%202%209871%204742>
>  INTERNET:
> > > marka () isc org


-- 
Ryan Gard