Re: Vendors spamming NANOG attendees

[Rodney Joffe <rjoffe () centergate com>]

> On Jun 13, 2017, at 8:31 AM, Mel Beckman <mel () beckman org> wrote:
>
> Rodney,
>
> You said "I see something every couple of months that I can track back to NANOG, or ARIN."
>
> I would hardly call this a flood. But my point is that most people posting to NANOG, being technical people, respond 
> to notifications that they are spamming. Your example email illustrates this perfectly. Sometimes they're ignorant 
> and don't realize they're spamming. If they're persistent they get removed from the list (I don't think that has had 
> to happen for several years).
>
> The remaining spammers are easily caught by filters, as you can plainly see.
>
> I don't see your need for urgency, and you still haven't said what you propose as a better arrangement. I made my 
> suggestion. What's yours?

I'm one of 10,000. I assume others see as many as I do (I have no idea how many get caught in my filters).

I don't recall calling this a flood. Did I? And I don't believe he is on the list so there's no way to "remove" him.  I 
think the list does a good job over time "training" subscribers. 

But I did say that if others don't respond to spammers to this list from vendors, it will become a problem. The list is 
fertile ground. And I'm not sure that Sterns response indicates any awareness. He admitted he used the 1,300 person 
attendee list as a prospecting tool. 

So all that I am suggesting is that others take the time to respond to spam from vendors (as I did) rather than 
ignoring it (just hitting delete doesn't work out in the long run). I have to assume that after a reasonable number of 
people do complain to his company, they'll learn. And others on the list who are tempted, change their minds.  I don't 
think the list itself per se suffers from a spam problem - although my 3 emails probably qualify as too much noise 
already. But it is vendors who use the list to prospect who should be discouraged.

Btw I have no doubt that rogue salesmen from my companies over the years have tried it once. When I find out about it, 
I do kick butts.

I'm hoping that this discussion is enough to get Calient to rethink their strategy.  For crying out loud, the guy is a 
VP in their company. What kind of example is that?

I'll end my public noise here :-)

Rodney




> -mel 
>
> > On Jun 13, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Rodney Joffe <rjoffe () centergate com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Mel Beckman <mel () beckman org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rodney,
> > >
> > > What do you suggest? Shoot them at Dawn? :-) 
> > >
> > > The standard warning and education has always been adequate in the past. We don't have a runaway spamming problem 
> > > on the list.
> >
> > What standard warning and education?
> >
> > We have filters to stop spam making it to the list.
> >
> > But there is definitely a spamming problem of sorts amongst vendors, to subscriber addresses. 
> >
> > I see something every couple of months that I can track back to NANOG, or ARIN.
> >
> > What I *know* is that if you open the door, and ignore it with vendors on NANOG, the list members will end up having 
> > a problem. If you want to know why I consider myself an expert, feel free to ask me offline about what the attitude 
> > that those of us who ran "the backbone" in 1994 had - and how that worked out.
> >
> > On the other hand, as a senior citizen, at the end of my tech days, with enable grudgingly given up, I guess I could 
> > turn away and say "not my problem, really".
> >
> > YMMV.
> > > -mel beckman
> > >
> > > > On Jun 13, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Rodney Joffe <rjoffe () centergate com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It seems that more than just a few of us were spammed by Glenn Stern (gstern () calient net), an employee of 
> > > > Calient following NANOG 70.
> > > >
> > > > The spammer had the balls to say, in his email:
> > > >
> > > > > We do not know each other. I'm leveraging the attendee list for NANOG to reach out and raise awareness of the 
> > > > > value of OCS (Optical Circuit Switching) in the data center and in particular, the Carrier Neutral Hotel where 
> > > > > we've been active with next generation MeetMeRoom discussions.
> > > >
> > > > He does not show as an attendee at NANOG, but another executive, David Altstaetter, daltstaetter () calient net 
> > > > did register, and may have even shown up. Hopefully those of you who have traditional community attitudes will 
> > > > show your reaction via your pocketbooks.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe its time for the NANOG board and staff to step in, and develop some teeth to use in cases like these? Unless 
> > > > the majority of you members are cool with unfettered spamming of member and attendee lists. In which case, have at 
> > > > it!
> > > >
> > > > Rodney