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Re: Bell outage

From: Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc>
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 10:59:45 -0400
( Buffalo resident here.)

That's pretty much true. From Toronto down around the lake, most of the
fiber paths follow the QEW, although I think I saw a map once that had some
down the 406. The challenge then becomes the Niagara River. There are only
really 3 good points north of Niagara Falls to cross the gorge, the Rainbow
/ Whirlpool Rapids / Lewiston-Queenston. (There is an old train bridge just
south of Whirlpool Rapids, but it's pretty decrepit.) Even then, L/Q is the
only option that's generally feasible to reach, and has any decent
infrastructure on the US side.

To my knowledge, most everything goes south to the Peace Bridge . into
Buffalo proper, and over to 350 Main Street. Just about everyone in this
region comes through there, except for Level3. (They're close, down on
Scott Street, and just stub up to Main. But even they don't actually have a
gateway there, they still pull people back to NY/Cleveland.)

I know there is a group trying to do a cable directly across Lake Ontario
to my neck of the woods, which would be really interesting if it happens.
You could save potentially 60k-ish with a direct path vs coming around and
down, and there's a surprisingly decent volume of in-region glass in the
ground on different paths. Plus much of the area north of Buffalo to the
lake is rural farmland, so building something new wouldn't be terribly hard
or expensive either.

Crossing the lake itself is a challenge though. Lake Ontario is really
deep, and there are steep underwater cliffs off the mouth of the Niagara
River (~50m drop over less than 1km) , and again on the eastern side of
Toronto. If they can work around that to get something run, I think it
could be a very intriguing path. I'm a little biased because I think it
could be a great boon for my area ; putting datacenter space in around here
is basically free compared to space up there, and you'd be <5ms from
Toronto, and ~10ms from NYC.

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck () unitedcablecompany com>
wrote:


I am pretty sure most of the fiber runs counterclockwise from Toronto to
Buffalo. Just a fact.


- R.


________________________________
From: Jason Lixfeld <jason () lixfeld ca>
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 11:48 PM
To: Rod Beck
Cc: nanog () nanog org; ahebert () pubnix net
Subject: Re: Bell outage

I think having a lake right in the middle makes a really nice, natural,
diverse route between the two locations, as is the case with the many
routes running east and west around the lake out of both 151 Front and 350
Main.  It’s great for non latency sensitive traffic if your short path
fails, but it sucks for latency sensitive traffic if your short path fails.

What’s the solution in that case if you need geo diverse, low latency
routes between two longish haul points that can only be connected by one
major highway and one major railway, and where there’s a large likelihood
that the even a single route would have to use both those pathways?  I’m
sure it's trivial to get geo diverse routes out of any major carrier hotel,
but what about the in between bits?


On Aug 4, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck () unitedcablecompany com>

wrote:


Well, imagine what happens when you have a body of water like Lake

Ontario separating the key hubs on each side of the border, 151 Front
Street and 350 Main Street. The fiber is probably stacked parallel around
the lake and at certain points is collapsed into one right of way.



- R.


________________________________
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces () nanog org> on behalf of Alain Hebert <

ahebert () pubnix net>

Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 10:34 PM
To: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: Bell outage

    Well,

    We have a case where 2 paths, between 151 front to somewhere in
Markham, ended up overlapping 3 times for about 300m total :(

    And to cap the whole thing off...  Enter the building thru the same
conduit.

    You pretty much need to be onsite supervising the whole thing up.

    And yes their files have the circuits going thru a home, what looks
like a gas station, an electrical grids, etc =D.  Pretty impressive.

    PS: As rodent, you mean the punks that fire bomb "that" conduit
under "that" bridge, a few years back?

-----
Alain Hebert                                ahebert () pubnix net
PubNIX Inc.
50 boul. St-Charles
P.O. Box 26770     Beaconsfield, Quebec     H9W 6G7
Tel: 514-990-5911  http://www.pubnix.net    Fax: 514-990-9443

PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<
http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...



PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<

http://www.pubnix.net/>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<
http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...



www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>

PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<
http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...



PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service

that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...




On 08/04/17 15:07, Ken Chase wrote:

And can be hard to know without serious dilligence - two of our

upstreams

happened to go through the same 360 networks conduit in montreal that

"saw

significant rodent activity". Both were down for 6 hours. A couple

customers

had some custom apps that relied on the two, each as redundancy to the

other.


That didnt work out.

Getting salesdroids to give you the info can be very hard though, and

even

tech dept's may not know what secondary providers their fibres run

through or

where, readily.

/kc

On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 02:57:22PM -0400, Alain Hebert said:

  Well,

  Saying they provided you with geographically diverse circuits versus
actually doing it, happen way too often.

-----
Alain Hebert                                ahebert () pubnix net
PubNIX Inc.
50 boul. St-Charles
P.O. Box 26770     Beaconsfield, Quebec     H9W 6G7
Tel: 514-990-5911  http://www.pubnix.net    Fax: 514-990-9443

PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<
http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...



PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<

http://www.pubnix.net/>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<
http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...



www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>

PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<
http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...



PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service

that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed
to providing you ...
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