nanog mailing list archives
RE: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures
From: Matthew Huff <mhuff () ox com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 11:03:17 -0400
Another couple of reasons to use a delayed transition ATS: 1) Motor lock. Delays on HVAC equipment never get triggered if the system never goes offline. Having a correct "open" period allows the motors to spin down, and start back up on the delays that are programmed keeping them from being synchronized 2) Allowing transformer fields to collapse. Even in phase, without a delayed transition ATS you can end up with a partially collapsed transformer field with a new field being created at non-ground state. This can cause a transient back wave that can snap circuit breakers. Yep, this one happened to us a few times before we switched to a delayed ATS, was a PITA to debug and resolve. -----Original Message----- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:sethm () rollernet us] Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:49 PM To: nanog () nanog org Subject: Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures On 6/25/2011 16:43, Paul Graydon wrote:
On 6/25/2011 12:32 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:For open and closed transitions you'll most certainly want to sync to utility to transition between the two. For the delayed transition model it'll stop at the intermediate "open" point for a configurable amount of time during which the load is disconnected from everything (i.e. let all the motors spin down first). ~SethTake a guess what the datacenter our equipment is currently hosted in uses. Yet another reason to be glad of a datacenter move that's coming up.
Also depends on the operator, so ask to see their xfer switches and how they're programmed if that's a concern. All of the non-residential models in that link for three-phase have motor/load disconnect signaling capability. If the operator is clued enough to use it then it's all good: shut off signal to motor/compressor loads, phase sync and switch, signal reconnect after delay. But if they're not... run away. Even with the delayed transition models the "hold open" delay can be too short and end up re-energizing the motors too quickly. There's always plenty of ways to f*ck things up good. ~Seth
Current thread:
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures, (continued)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Seth Mattinen (Jun 25)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Paul Graydon (Jun 25)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Andrew D Kirch (Jun 25)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Joel Jaeggli (Jun 25)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Ingo Flaschberger (Jun 26)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures [OT] Jussi Peltola (Jun 26)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures [OT] Pete Carah (Jun 26)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Seth Mattinen (Jun 25)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Owen DeLong (Jun 27)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Michael DeMan (Jun 25)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Seth Mattinen (Jun 25)
- RE: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Matthew Huff (Jun 26)
- RE: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Ingo Flaschberger (Jun 26)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Pete Carah (Jun 26)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Jussi Peltola (Jun 26)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Jay Ashworth (Jun 25)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Leo Bicknell (Jun 26)
- Re: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Jussi Peltola (Jun 26)
- RE: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Alex Rubenstein (Jun 26)
- RE: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Alex Rubenstein (Jun 26)
- RE: Wacky Weekend: NERC to relax power grid frequency strictures Alex Rubenstein (Jun 25)