nanog mailing list archives
Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?)
From: Michael Thomas <mike () mtcc com>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:05:57 -0700
On 07/10/2011 12:45 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
While this is true, there are a couple of factors that make it more difficult than it would appear on the surface. Number one: Participating effectively in IETF is a rather time-consuming process. While a lot of engineers and developers may have IETF effort as a primary part of their job function and/or get their employer to let them spend time on it, operators are often too busy keeping what they already have running and it can be _VERY_ difficult to get management to support the idea of investing time in things like IETF which are not seen by management as having direct operational impact. NANOG is about the limit of their vision on such things and even that is not well supported in a lot of organizations.
Vendors make up the vast bulk of attendance at ietf. And vendors are there for one reason: to make stuff that you'll be paying for. So you pay for it at ietf time, or you pay for it at deployment time. Either way, you'll be paying.
Number two: While anyone can participate, approaching IETF as an operator requires a rather thick skin, or, at least it did the last couple of times I attempted to participate. I've watched a few times where operators were shouted down by purists and religion over basic real-world operational concerns. It seems to be a relatively routine practice and does not lead to operators wanting to come back to an environment where they feel unwelcome.
If you're trying to imply that operators get singled out, that's not been my experience. You definitely need to have a thick skin given egos and there's definitely a large pool of professional ietf finger waggers, but their holier than thou attitude is spread to all in their path, from what I've seen. I won't speak for every working group, but the ones i've been involved with have been pretty receptive to operator input. Mike
Current thread:
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?), (continued)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Owen DeLong (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) William Herrin (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Joel Jaeggli (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Randy Bush (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Mikael Abrahamsson (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Owen DeLong (Jul 11)
- Message not available
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Tim Chown (Jul 12)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Randy Bush (Jul 10)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) William Allen Simpson (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Owen DeLong (Jul 10)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Michael Thomas (Jul 10)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Jeff Wheeler (Jul 10)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Darrel Lewis (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Doug Barton (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Leo Bicknell (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Jeff Wheeler (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Owen DeLong (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Jeff Wheeler (Jul 11)
- Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?) Jimmy Hess (Jul 11)
- NDP DoS attack (was Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?)) Karl Auer (Jul 11)
- Re: NDP DoS attack (was Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?)) Fernando Gont (Jul 14)