nanog mailing list archives
RE: Todd Underwood was a little late
From: "Lee Howard" <lee () asgard org>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:01:49 -0400
-----Original Message----- From: Michael Dillon [mailto:wavetossed () googlemail com] Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 12:39 PM To: Lee Howard Cc: Todd Underwood; Christopher Morrow; nanog () nanog org Subject: Re: Todd Underwood was a little late " "Registered but unrouted" would include space that is in use in largeprivate networks that aren't visible from your standard sources for route views, such as U.S. DoD (6, 11, 22, 26, 28, 29, 30 /8) or U.K. MoD (25/8).Have you verified each of these address ranges or are you just a mindless robot repeating urban legends?
Turing test? "standard sources for route views" = "route-views" YSSfRVMV
By your definition, there is an awful lot more "registered but unrouted"
space
and researchers have been reporting on this for 10 years or more. In order to correctly identify what you think you are talking about, you need to
take
into account the date a range was registered and the date that you scanned the data. If the difference between the two dates is less than some small number, say one year, then it is probably routed space which has not yet been routed but soon will be. Different people will want to set that
breakpoint
at different timescales for obvious reasons.
I also chose not to define "The Internet" or "routing table" and avoided terms like "DFZ" and "WTF."
I encourage someone to do the work to list all such ranges along with the dates, and supply them as a feed, like Cymru does. Best would be to allow the feed recipient to filter based on age of block.
Why? Just because it's never been routed doesn't mean it never will be. I said "unlikely to be routed," but using such space is a game of chance. Unless, of course, somebody at one of those organizations said, "This prefix will never be announced to "the Internet," where "the Internet" is defined in a meaningful way to the engineer applying the filter.
and starting to use addresses like these already (for devices not
capable
of IPv6) for internal networking (not publically routed). I believe
this
is generally considered bad citizenship, but I'm interested in why?Stupidity. Many people have no historical perspective and think that the only users of I{P address space that matter are ISPs. I don't consider it bad citizenship if the "adopted" space is not routed publicly, and even the definition of "publicly" is hard to pin down. If someone wants to
route
such space to a 100 or so ASNs in Russia, Kazakhstan, Kirghizstan,
Uzbekistan,
Afghanistan and China, then I don't think that they are blatantly being bad Internet citizens. Particularly if they carefully chose whose
addresses
to "adopt".
So you support Todd Underwood's proposal? http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/presentations/Wednesday/Prefixes_as_Bu ndles_of_Probability%20%281%29.pdf
Is there a range most people camp on?No. And it would be dumb to do that. Smarter is to use some range that nobody else is known to be camping on except the registrant and their network is geographically distant from yours.
Geographically, not topologically, or usefully?
--Michael Dillon P.S. At this point, the IPv6 transition has failed, unlike the Y2K transition, and
For certain values of "fail." The odds of a dual-stack transition as initially envisioned by the IETF are vanishingly small, but IPv6 will be a significant part of the coping strategies once RIRs allocate their last blocks of IPv4.
P.P.S. I saw a report that someone, somewhere, had analysed some data which indicates that IP address allocation rates are increasing and there
is
a real possibility that we will runout by the end of this year, 2010. Does anyone know where I can find the actual analysis that led to this report?
Geoff Huston's data are available, I think, so you can crunch your own numbers. InfoWorld had a chart where they only used five months of allocations to project the future, and it's not clear how many data points they used to draw their line. http://www.infoworld.com/d/networking/beware-the-black-market-rising-ip-addr esses-729 As of today, I see ten /8s assigned by IANA in 2010. I count 15 remaining /8s. When IANA has only five remaining, they will allocate one to each RIR. Will the last six months look like the first six months? Faster or slower? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.xml Lee
Current thread:
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late, (continued)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Christopher Morrow (Jun 17)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Todd Underwood (Jun 17)
- RE: Todd Underwood was a little late Lee Howard (Jun 18)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Michael Dillon (Jun 19)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late deleskie (Jun 19)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late bmanning (Jun 19)
- RE: Todd Underwood was a little late George Bonser (Jun 20)
- Country Level BGP Data Paul Stewart (Jun 28)
- Re: Country Level BGP Data Bill Woodcock (Jun 28)
- Re: Country Level BGP Data Steve Bertrand (Jun 28)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Christopher Morrow (Jun 17)
- RE: Todd Underwood was a little late Lee Howard (Jun 21)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Christopher Morrow (Jun 21)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Michael Dillon (Jun 21)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Christopher Morrow (Jun 21)
- Re: Todd Underwood was a little late Michael Dillon (Jun 21)