nanog mailing list archives
RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets
From: "Frank Bulk" <frnkblk () iname com>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:46:52 -0500
We're living in a DOCSIS 1.1 and 2.0 world, which gives us 40 down, 9 up in a best case. Considering that there are ~4 upstream ports for every downstream port, the MSOs are already operating their network in a 40:36 or almost 1:1 ratio. It's just that upstream is a much more precious item that that they can't afford to fill up on a particular node, and most people find download speeds much more important most of the time. We'll talk about DOCSIS 3.0 in a year from now and see how it's being deployed. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu] On Behalf Of Leo Bicknell Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:05 AM To: Joe Provo Cc: nanog () merit edu Subject: Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets In a message written on Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 10:34:00AM -0400, Joe Provo wrote:
While I expect end-users to miss the boat that providers use stat-mux calculations to build and price their networks, I'm floored to see the sentiment on NANOG. No edge provider of geographic scope/scale will survive if 1:1 ratios were built and priced accordingly. Perhaps the M&A colonialism era is coming to a close and smaller, regional nation- states... erm last-mile providers will be the entities to grow with satisfied customers?
I'm not sure NANOGers are missing the boat, just bemoaning the economics of the situation and some companies choices. As an example, if I believe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS (as I'm no cable export): DOCSIS 1.x, 10.24Mbps upstream. With this providers regularly offered 384-768k upload speeds to customers. DOCSIS 3.0, 122Mbps upstream. That's about 12x. Applying the 12x to the original upload speed that's 4.6-9.2Mbps upload speed per user. And yet, today most of the major national providers don't over more than 1Mbps of upload speed in their fastest packages. Perhaps the real issue here is that broadband providers don't have enough diversity in their products. Picking on an unnamed cable provider and looking at their web site I can get: 4M down, 384k up. $39. 6M down, 768k up. $49. 8M down, 768k up. $59. That's their entire portfolio of residential services. How about a $99 package with 10M down, 3M up? How about $5 per meg download, $20 per meg upload, pick any combination of speeds you want where both are under 20Mbps? And why-o-why are they still giving me modems? Is not the stack of 5 that I already have enough waste? How much of my service charge goes to replacing equipment over and over because it's "how they work". (For instance I moved, and got a new modem with the new install, same make and model as the old modem, which they didn't want back.) So, while NANOGers may float the idea of 1:1, what I think really honks them off is that the current standard (4M down, 384k up) is 1:10, and I think they feel it's time it became more like 1:4 (4M down, 1M up), and that seems to be completely within reach of the technology. Which leaves the only thing holding it up being big company management and marketing. I will point out, one of the smaller providers on the Wikipedia page under US, CableVision, is said to have 30Mbps down 5Mbps up. That's 1:6, at a heck of a lot higher speeds. I think most people here would be quite happy with that offering. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell () ufp org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request () tmbg org, www.tmbg.org
Current thread:
- RE: Internet access in Japan (was Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets), (continued)
- RE: Internet access in Japan (was Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets) Rod Beck (Oct 24)
- RE: Internet access in Japan (was Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets) Steve Gibbard (Oct 24)
- RE: Internet access in Japan (was Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets) Rod Beck (Oct 24)
- Re: Internet access in Japan (was Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets) Tom Vest (Oct 25)
- RE: Internet access in Japan (was Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets) Frank Bulk (Oct 24)
- Re: Internet access in Japan (was Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets) Joel Jaeggli (Oct 24)
- RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Frank Bulk (Oct 22)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Steven M. Bellovin (Oct 22)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Joe Provo (Oct 23)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Leo Bicknell (Oct 23)
- RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Frank Bulk (Oct 23)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Brian Raaen (Oct 24)
- RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Frank Bulk (Oct 24)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Joe Greco (Oct 24)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Dorn Hetzel (Oct 24)
- RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Carpenter, Jason (Oct 24)
- RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Frank Bulk (Oct 24)
- RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Rod Beck (Oct 24)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Adrian Chadd (Oct 24)
- RE: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Rod Beck (Oct 24)
- Re: BitTorrent swarms have a deadly bite on broadband nets Adrian Chadd (Oct 24)