Re: Certification or College degrees?

[Brian <bri () sonicboom org>]

Computer science does enforce critical thinking skills, which are a very
necessary part of any successful engineer's toolbox.

        Bri

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Mathew Lodge wrote:

> Nigel,
>
> I think you are confusing software engineers with network engineers. As a
> rule of thumb, software / applications writers rarely understand how
> networks really work, in the same way that network engineers rarely
> understand how software / applications really work.
>
> IMHO, there is no mandatory reason a network engineer has to know a
> programming language, in the same way there's no mandatory reason that a
> top software engineer has to be able to configure a Cisco router. People
> who grok both worlds are critical for companies that are writing software
> that touches networks, and in general such people are versatile and
> valuable. But the real trick is getting a team of all three types to
> complement each other, not hiring a single skill / mindset.
>
> You also seem not to like Cisco for some reason. Perhaps this is why you
> have never looked at the curriculum for CCIE. It does require you to know
> the Cisco CLI, but that is to show you can correctly implement the
> solutions you devise -- a very practical consideration for someone
> purporting to be a network engineer. Knowing how to devise those solutions
> is the major focus of CCIE, not memorizing the Cisco CLI. You could equally
> translate the learned knowledge to, say, Juniper CLI. Finally, trying to
> paint re-certification in a very fast-moving industry as some kind of
> conspiracy is a real stretch.
>
> The title of this thread is part of the problem: "certification or
> degrees", as if they are mutually exclusive.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mathew
>
>
>
>
> At 06:37 PM 5/22/2002 -0400, Nigel Clarke wrote:
>
> > IMO:
> >
> > Certifications are a waste of time. You'd be better off
> > obtaining a Computer Science degree and focusing on the
> > core technologies.
> >
> > Why would you devote your career to learning a vendor's
> > command line or IOS?
> >
> > Cisco has done an excellent job @ brainwashing the IT
> > community. The have (unfortunately) set the standard for
> > "Network Engineers".
> >
> > What do you think is more respected, a masters degree in
> > Networking Engineering or a CCIE. In most
> > circles it would be the latter.
> >
> > Cisco's certification program has effected the entire IT
> > community. Their CCIE's are required to recertify every few
> > years, thus forcing them to stay true to the Cisco lifestyle.
> >
> > I've met some CCIE's who don't know any programming languages
> > or any experience with Unix. It's clear that they are one
> > dimensional and unfocused.
> >
> > Why study the same thing over and over? Do you really have X
> > amount of years experience, or do you have 1 years experience
> > X times?
> >
> > Think about it. If you have been in the field for over 5
> > years and someone new to the industry by way of certification
> > can handle your work load, that is a serious problem.
> >
> > If anything certs should be used as a stepping stone or
> > advancement to new technologies or areas.
> >
> > Then again, the question of CERTS vs. DEGREES might apply
> > differently to someone without any experience. I guess it
> > really depends on what your looking for.
> > ---
> >
> > Nigel Clarke
> > Network Security Engineer
> > nigel () forever-networks com