nanog mailing list archives
Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...)
From: Joel Jaeggli <joelja () darkwing uoregon edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Mike Batchelor wrote:
NAT rewrites certain packet data fields (src addr, src port, sometimes mac addr). So does a ordinary router (ttl decrement). One breaks end2end, the other does not. What is the difference? I think you will find that a definition of "end2end" is a lot more squishy than you want it to be.
Actually I think It's very simple... in a world were potentially any device can be a tcp based server the fredom to connect to it regardless of what network it's behind is critical... if all my devices are on different networks, behind different nats connecting between them becomes very hard... if we have for example, my cell phone behind a nat at my cell provider, my home computer, behind my home nat because my provider will only give me one ip, and my home nat behind my provider nat, because my provider doesn't have enough v4 address space, how do I initiate a connection between my cell phone and my home-computer, or vice-versa, if we add a third device, my laptop sitting behind a broadband wireless providers nat how do I interconnect them, that fact that they're all ip enabled has in fact bought me squat. end-to-end is the freedom to initiate a connection between any two tcp enabled devices. something which some of us take for granted in the ip world, but which is being rapidly eroded. joelja -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja () darkwing uoregon edu Academic User Services consult () gladstone uoregon edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
Current thread:
- Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ..., (continued)
- Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... David Howe (Sep 07)
- RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Roeland Meyer (Sep 06)
- RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Roeland Meyer (Sep 06)
- RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Charles Sprickman (Sep 07)
- Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... bmanning (Sep 07)
- Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Jon Mansey (Sep 07)
- Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... bmanning (Sep 07)
- Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Valdis . Kletnieks (Sep 07)
- Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Scott Francis (Sep 07)
- RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Charles Sprickman (Sep 07)
- end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Mike Batchelor (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Joel Jaeggli (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Jon Mansey (Sep 07)
- Re[3]: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Richard Welty (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Leo Bicknell (Sep 07)
- RE: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Mike Batchelor (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Joel Baker (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Leo Bicknell (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Andy Dills (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Leo Bicknell (Sep 07)
- Re: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) steve uurtamo (Sep 07)
- RE: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...) Tony Hain (Sep 07)