RE: DDoS attacks

[Brad <brad () americanisp net>]

On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Roeland Meyer wrote:

> > From: up () 3 am [mailto:up () 3 am]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:23 AM
>
> > I can't help but believe that if even 20% of them
> > were caught and had to spend just a little time (even hours) with the
> > cops, and had their peecees confiscated, you'd not be seeing
> > nearly the problems we are now.
>
> This is the main point, a script-kiddie hunt, with prosecution, is the ONLY
> real deterrent. Throw some of them in hotel greybar and remove them from
> computing, for life, and we may see some of this turn around.

I am just concerned about our current legal systems being
able to handle such cases efficently.  Well.. Perhaps I
should not use 'legal systems' and 'efficently' in the same
sentence, but you get the idea ;)
Think SPAM here.  It has been discussed in the past, and I
have a few users who have been victims of SPAM-zombies (or
the like). This is not too much different.  I got abuse
reports from several different sources about SPAM
originating from a customer of ours who has been with us for
four years so I questioned stuff.  Turns out they had a
similar zombie designed to SPAM.  Their fault?  No.  Should
I have placed filters on their IP?  Yes.  It was a choice to
deny one person service till the problem was corrected for a
short time, or to have the rest of the internet community
suffer.  Also- dealing with attackers from other countries
(and taking them to court) can be a serious and costly
issue.

> If a lady wears skimpy clothing, does she deserve to get raped? Obviously,
> not. If a computer has skimpy protection, does it deserve to be turned into
> a zombie? Simply because you forget to lock your car one night (whilst in
> your driveway), do you deserve to have it stolen? If you leave a $100 on
> your kitchen table, in your unlocked house, whilst you are working in your
> garage, do I have the right to sneak in the back door and take it while
> avoiding prosecution, on the grounds that you were careless? WRT EFFnet,
> does a prostitute deserve to be raped?

Agreed.  They do not deserve it.  However, by the time their
machine(s) are comprmised, the damage has been done.

> There are certain reasonable presumptions, like safety, that our society
> affords us. Script kiddies violate those as do the slime-bags that argue for
> their good. How much of our budgets have gone to protecting ourselve from
> those rodents? How much revenue has been lost because of their activity?
> They are the rats of the Internet and bring disease with them whereever they
> go. Their population is growing to plague proportions and they are getting
> bolder. It's long past time to poison the lot of them, including their
> supporters.

I wish I had the $$ to take them all to court (even some of
them in other countries).

> Personally, I feel that the crud that writes and releases their code for
> them should be lobotomized. Regardless of their disclaimers, they are NOT
> doing a public good.

In a perfect world, we would not need
hardened-steel-reenforced safes for our money and 128-bit
SSL encryption to make online orders.  All of our efforts
and attempts to bring order to a chaotic society will be
tested again and again by members of that society.  So-
while I agree with your intentions- staying ahead of the
game is probably the most efficent way to 'win'.  Hence
BugTraq and the like.  Sure- posting code to bugtraq which
gives remote root access to 10% of DNS servers on the planet
also puts that code in the hands of individuals who do not
deserve it.  However, and even better-yet, it puts it in the
hands of those who need it most.

---
Brad Baker
Director: Network Operations
American ISP
brad () americanisp net
+1 303 984 5700 x12
http://www.americanisp.net/