Re: The Mother of all Solutions (Was Class B for Sale or Rent)

["John W. Stewart III" <jstewart () isi edu>]

hang on there

while i'm actually *not* necessarily against your proposal for
providers to "just take over," i do think you're being a bit
rash.  specifically, if you want to do something like this,
why not actually propose the *way* that the "seized" addresses
would be allocated such that your proposal results in a *less*
chaotic future?  for example, why not try a test run of some
of the market-based approaches others have suggested?  the most
promising one, in my opinion, is scott huddle's proposal for a
market for both addresses and routing table slots; registries
(which cover the address part) would simply record who has
what address while the providers (and whatever other third-
party businesses which might spring up) would deal with the
routing slot part.  this assumes certain mechanisms within
bgp (or some other ~routing protocol) to reserve slots (kind
of like an RSVP for routing [as opposed to forwarding]), but
i think some of the direct implications, as well as some of
the fallout, would be very good and would show the internet
maturing as a service.  i also think it would help technically
by forcing us to answer the question:  "given a time and a
technology, what does 'full' mean for a routing table?"

in other words, if you're gonna take over the world, don't
just do more of the same...

just my US$0.02

/jws

>      Let me add a word to Brett's comments.  This IS a world-scale
>      economy.
>
>      If a LARGE GROUP OF NETWORK PROVIDERS (that's us, btw, nanog),
>      decided TOMORROW that WE will assign address space and route to
>      it, there is no force in the world that will charge for it, or
>      be able to change it.
>
>      Here's the Ehud Scenario:
>              1. Tomorrow Paul Vixie gets a pirate hair up his dec alpha
>                 and puts in 64.in-addr.arpa. through 126.in-addr.arpa.
>                 in F.
>              2. We start assigning nets from this block (64/8-126/8).
>              3. We start routing to this block (ok, I don't own a backbone
>                 yet, but let me use "we" meaning nanog for now ;)
>
>      Is this unlawful?  No.  There's no law about announcing routes,
>      nor about delegating them in private internets.  For practical
>      purposes, NANOG members form a private internet.  
>
>      Is this unethical?  Some would say 'Sure, only the InterNIC and
>      IANA can assign IP addresses.'  Some tell me this thinking is
>      obsolete.  Jim Fleming would salivate, and Karl Deninger would
>      laugh.  Well, maybe.  
>      
>      Is this impractical?  I dunno.  I figure we could bribe Paul with
>      $ 2000 per assignment regardless of size (after all, two NS entries
>      are all the same cost).  After about 52 /24s, he'd double his 
>      yearly retainer income (all figures guesses with no real basis)
>      and probably be able to retire to Caymans.  (That's a Brett Scenario).
>
>      Oh yeah, it's my idea, so I want anyone who gets an allocation from
        
>      this scheme to send me a bottle of single-malt Scotch.
>
>      Let me know if I've left something out.
>
>      Ehud
>
>      p.s. If I've pissed off anybody in this post, send me a private
>           note via us mail.  Be sure to include a bottle of single malt
>           Scotch or your note will be returned.  Just like email to admin@cr
l
> 
> > So that I'm not misunderstood let me say this:
>
> > 1: I do not neccessarily agree with the sale of IPs, personally, I don't
> > think its a good idea
>
> > 2: This is a real world economy now, outdated academic practices which are
> > currently being enforced are as wrong as the sale of IPs.
>
> > 3: Wether you, ARIN, or anyone else likes it or not, IPs are for all intent
s
> > and purposes a resellable commodity, otherwise ARIN et all can (ala Jim
> > Flemming) be called on as being a Monopoly.
>
> > 4: The simple fact of the matter is that the RFCs are not at any time, the
> > law of the land. They are at best guidelines and good ideas set down for
> > others to follow, but there is no rule stating that you _must_ follow them.
>
> > 5: Before you start chasing wild geese selling Class B address space I
> > suggest you go back and check on all those folks that got space long before
> > there were any 'restrictions and justifications'. I have no doubt that ther
e
> > is a veritable feast of IPs sitting unused at MIT, USC, and other such
> > institutions that would be better used elsewhere instead of sitting in a
> > corner like a dusty grad student.
>
> > 6: Finally and most importantly, stop pretending you still live in the worl
d
> > of happy academia where everyone is willing to follow the rules you set dow
n
> > just because you're the proffessor and they're the student. This just does
> > not work anymore, you may scoff at people like Jim Flemming but for each on
e
> > you knock down there is another one to learn from his mistakes and take his
> > place. Do not pretend you can sit idle and call people who don't fall in
> > line behind you names so that you can sit back in your dusty chair and
> > pretend nothing is wrong. The internet as a whole is growing at an unthough
t
> > of pace and your failure to keep up will not be fixed by being tight assed
> > and making it harder on those that follow. Eventually someone else will tak
e
> > the forefront and throw you off your high horse like yesterdays newspaper.
> > You purport to be leaders of the internet, then its about time you acted
> > like it and start to solve the problems instead of trying to make the
> > problems go away by being ignorant of reality.
>
>
> > [-]                Brett L. Hawn (blh @ nol dot net)                       
[-]
> > [-]                Networks On-Line - Houston, Texas                       
[-]
> > [-]                           713-467-7100                                 
[-]
>
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