Re: Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web Site?

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

________________________________________
From: eekid () aol com [eekid () aol com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:56 AM
To: David Farber; dfarber () cs cmu edu; lauren () vortex com
Subject: Re: [IP] Re:   Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web Site?

Mr. Farber post to IP if you care to.

Maybe I'm a criminal.  I routinely provide false identification information to websites and intend to continue.

Routinely, website registrations require to know who I am, my birth date, phone number, mothers maiden name, pet names, 
best friend's name, address and other details that could be used to steal a person's identity or deluge them with 
unwanted advertisements.

A couple years ago, I received a phone call from a woman who called herself Wendy M (I won't give our her last name and 
violate her privacy) , she claimed to be working on a genealogy search of her family and claimed that I was a distant 
relative.  When she pressed me for information about my family, (birth dates, birth cities, brothers, sisters, 
employers, etc) I refused her request.  I explained that I didn't know her and that such information could be used to 
steal a person's identity.  She then explained that my feelings were perfectly understandable and asked if I would be 
willing to simply confirm existing information she had found.  I asked her what information she might already have and 
she then began to rattle off a chain of personal information about me.

I was amazed to find the information she had was in fact the fake online identity I commonly use.  With my fake birth 
date, fake mothers maiden name (even the odd spelling).  I simply explained to her that all the information she had was 
correct and she went away never to be heard from again.  She promised to send me the family tree when she completed it 
but never did.

Was she trying to collect information about me to steal my identity?  At what point did I give ANY website, corporation 
or ad agency permission to distribute my personal data to anyone claiming to be performing a 'genealogy' search?

Sure, I could simply not register to read a newspaper online or not use some service rather than provide fake 
information but, what happens when nearly all websites require some form of registration that requires personal 
information of some sort?  Because of spammers, an increasing number do.  Is it acceptable to have to choose between 
maintaining some level of personal privacy or disconnecting from the internet?

Is this site registration information the equivalent of the local library (or Amazon.com) keeping records on who I am 
and what I read, then passing it on to anyone who wants a copy and is willing to pay a few bucks to access it?  
Including your employer, government or nosy neighbors?

Would you be comfortable with that?

Why does it seem that 'We The People' are constantly being bombarded with requirements that we completely open the 
details of our lives, to government, corporations, etc. when the requirements for them to do the same are headed in the 
opposite direction?  Even when time and time again, they botch prtecting of such information.

I firmly believe we should shield ourselves from identity thieves, unwarranted government intrusion, nosy neighbors, 
etc. and if websites aren't going to protect our personal data, who will?

Then again, perhaps that's just my "criminal mind" taking me down the wrong path again...

Jerry  (This may not be my real name)





________________________________________

From: Ed Gerck [egerck () nma com<mailto:egerck () nma com>]

Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:43 PM

To: Lauren Weinstein

Cc: David Farber

Subject: Re: [IP]  Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web Site?



Lauren and Dave,



This discussion in IP, and contrary to the Internet, has been very

US-centric. For example, in the UK anyone can use any name at any

time without any  formalities, and no such name is less legally valid.



The Internet is /not/ a special legal jurisdiction. It must follow the

local jurisdiction and each end point -- and, sometimes, at the

originating point. It's that simple. Internet or not, there is a

local law regime that is applied by jurisdiction claims.



Some examples from the non-Internet world:



- Many people use "John Smith" as a name in phone number official

listings in Calif. It's an easy way to achieve anonymity without

paying a fee for an unlisted number.



- Calif. DMV allows motorists to display a postal address in their

licenses, if they so want, which is not their home address.



- Many of us routinely use different letters for our middle name,

for example in magazine subscriptions, as a way to trace who

discloses our names.



- Pseudonym use is also common in arts, politics, and writing, as

Mark Twain for example, and this *is* legal in many jurisdictions

even for commerce and billing purposes. You can even get "pseudo

numbers" for credit cards, linked to you real card, and which work

fine in commerce.



Savvy Internet users prefer to type "xyz whatever" as a mother's

maiden name, or a pet's name, for those sites that insist we

provide a weak password (our mother's true maiden name) to

"protect" our carefully chosen hard-to-guess password.



Most of us (specially as a protection to spam and spammer-generated

names) have more than one email address and not necessarily use

something name-like such as ed () gerck com<mailto:ed () gerck com> for all purposes.



The point that still needs to be made here is not about "censoring

the Net" but conforming to local US laws, including the long reach

of federal jurisdiction. In Texas, for example, what is legal in

the UK (see above) is illegal depending on time of use.



Cheers,

Ed Gerck



-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
To: ip <ip () v2 listbox com>
Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 7:26 pm
Subject: [IP] Re: Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web Site?



________________________________________

From: Ed Gerck [egerck () nma com<mailto:egerck () nma com>]

Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:43 PM

To: Lauren Weinstein

Cc: David Farber

Subject: Re: [IP]  Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web Site?



Lauren and Dave,



This discussion in IP, and contrary to the Internet, has been very

US-centric. For example, in the UK anyone can use any name at any

time without any  formalities, and no such name is less legally valid.



The Internet is /not/ a special legal jurisdiction. It must follow the

local jurisdiction and each end point -- and, sometimes, at the

originating point. It's that simple. Internet or not, there is a

local law regime that is applied by jurisdiction claims.



Some examples from the non-Internet world:



- Many people use "John Smith" as a name in phone number official

listings in Calif. It's an easy way to achieve anonymity without

paying a fee for an unlisted number.



- Calif. DMV allows motorists to display a postal address in their

licenses, if they so want, which is not their home address.



- Many of us routinely use different letters for our middle name,

for example in magazine subscriptions, as a way to trace who

discloses our names.



- Pseudonym use is also common in arts, politics, and writing, as

Mark Twain for example, and this *is* legal in many jurisdictions

even for commerce and billing purposes. You can even get "pseudo

numbers" for credit cards, linked to you real card, and which work

fine in commerce.



Savvy Internet users prefer to type "xyz whatever" as a mother's

maiden name, or a pet's name, for those sites that insist we

provide a weak password (our mother's true maiden name) to

"protect" our carefully chosen hard-to-guess password.



Most of us (specially as a protection to spam and spammer-generated

names) have more than one email address and not necessarily use

something name-like such as ed () gerck com<mailto:ed () gerck com> for all purposes.



The point that still needs to be made here is not about "censoring

the Net" but conforming to local US laws, including the long reach

of federal jurisdiction. In Texas, for example, what is legal in

the UK (see above) is illegal depending on time of use.



Cheers,

Ed Gerck



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