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much more on Net neutrality and antitrust
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:03:20 -0400
Begin forwarded message: From: "Faulhaber, Gerald" <faulhabe () wharton upenn edu> Date: July 6, 2006 4:56:40 PM EDT To: David Farber <dave () farber net> Subject: RE: [IP] more on Net neutrality and antitrust Dave [for IP]-- Of course the telcos are exquisite lobbyists, everyone knows they are, and vilifies them for it, up to and including Google. But if Vint's quote is to be believed, it looks like Google is prepared to do the same sort of lobbying at DoJ to get them to carry their water for them. The point of my note is that perhaps they should think of carrying their own water (in the event of an anticompetitive fire;-) by instituting private antitrust action rather than lobbying DoJ to do their work. If we are going to criticize the telcos for excessive lobbying, isn't it hypocritical to contemplate doing the same thing? Of course the MS case has nothing to do with NN; I never said it did. The lesson I draw from the MS case is that it was private competitors energetically lobbying DoJ that led to the case initiation, and it appears (again, assuming the Vint quote accurate) that Google was about to follow in their footsteps. Incidentally, in spite of some recent mis-steps, I have enormous regard for the Antitrust guys at DoJ. They are smart, disciplined, relatively removed from political influence, and serious about their economics. We are lucky to have them. Not totally immune from lobbying, of course. An aside: we may all hate lobbyists, even though we tend to lobby like crazy ourselves (of course, WE are not the hated lobbyists). But the telcos are so much better at it than Google/Yahoo/MS; the applications guys are just getting their butts kicked on this, and they haven't a clue as to how to recover. For students of the political process (who actually enjoy watching their sausage being made), this is a textbook lesson in how seasoned political operatives do their job and win. Hope the apps boys are taking notes. Professor Gerald Faulhaber Business and Public Policy Dept. Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 Professor of Law University of Pennsylvania -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 3:47 PM To: Gerald Faulhaber Subject: Fwd: [IP] more on Net neutrality and antitrust Begin forwarded message: From: Daniel Weitzner <djweitzner () csail mit edu> Date: July 6, 2006 3:41:48 PM EDT To: dave () farber net Cc: ip () v2 listbox com Subject: Re: [IP] more on Net neutrality and antitrust The Microsoft case seems like a poor analogy to anything having to do with Internet Neutrality and antitrust. Though I'm not suggesting that the conditions are, at this point, similar, I'd look more to the breakup of AT&T, illustrating that it is possible for the Justice Department to intervene in a way that produces significant innovation, economic growth, and consumer benefit. (It also required a pretty tenacious judge, of course.) Again, I'm not saying that the AT&T case of old is like the current situation, but it's no more dissimilar than the Microsoft case is to Internet Neutrality. The question, as raised by this thread, isn't whether Microsoft innovated or not. Rather, the question is whether Microsoft gained a monopoly through abuse of market power. Professor Faulhaber criticized Sun, Netscape and others as 'whining' and then lobbying. The charge of 'whining' seems to have been refuted by the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, which found that Microsoft did indeed have a monopoly (upholding that part of a very controversial lower court ruling). The Bush Administration did not seek to break up Microsoft but did require significant remedies. Is everyone whining in Prof. Faulhaber's view? It's possible to have differing views on the Microsoft case without accusing anyone who seeks government intervention with whining. This characterization reveals more about the professor's general attitude about government intervention in the marketplace for the public interest than it does about the substance of either Internet Neutrality or the Microsoft case. (I haven't seem Faulhaber complain about telco lobbying on Internet Neutrality, so assume he's not totally opposed to that activity.) Danny On Jul 6, 2006, at 3:03 PM, David Farber wrote:
Begin forwarded message: From: Gerry Faulhaber <gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com> Date: July 6, 2006 2:44:45 PM EDT To: Charles Pinneo <pinneo () sbcglobal net> Cc: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] Net neutrality and antitrust No, MS purchased the Spyglass browser; they didn' t copy Netscape. And this is irrelevant to the point that indeed Sun and Netscape lobbied very hard and very long at the DoJ to get the Antitrust Div. to file the MS case. Previously, the FTC decided not to bring a case against MS, which is some evidence of the effectiveness of the Sun/Netscape lobbying strategy at DoJ. It is of no antitrust consequence that MS buys much of its innovative software, a strategy that many companies use. Pharma, for example, outsources virtually all its biotech stuff. Are we supposed to think this is an evil strategy? Not only am I not rewriting history, Charles, I am perfectly comfortable with MS's strategy here and I do not feel they or anyone else needs to apologize for it. Professor Gerald R. Faulhaber Business and Public Policy Dept. Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 Professor of Law University of Pennsylvania Law School ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Pinneo" <pinneo () sbcglobal net> To: "Gerry Faulhaber" <gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com>; "Dave Farber" <dave () farber net> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [IP] Net neutrality and antitrustGerry, What do you mean, "Sun and Netscape whined about Microsoft," Microsoft copied the Netscape browser and stole it from Netscape. Microsoft never invented anything. Everything they made was invented
by other smaller Companies. Are you trying to reinvent history? Charlie Pinneo pinneo () sbcglobal net ----------------------------- On Jul 5, 2006, at 5:33 PM, David Farber wrote:Begin forwarded message: From: Gerry Faulhaber <gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com> Date: July 5, 2006 3:18:08 PM EDT To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] Net neutrality and antitrust Dave [for IP] This is indeed the path we suggested...sort of. Perhaps Vint was misquoted, but the news article makes him look like he expects the DoJ to bring his antitrust case for him when he asks for it. This is very unlikely to happen, unless a BB ISP is egregiously anticompetitive. If Google wants relief under A/T law, they will almost surely have to file a private case. This is not unusual; private A/T cases are rather common. The last time private firms lobbied the (Clinton) DoJ to institute an antitrust case was when Sun and Netscape whined about Microsoft;
I suspect the DoJ folks don't see that as a great success, and are maybe not so likely to be the industry's cat's paw again. Professor Gerald R. Faulhaber Business & Public Policy Dept. Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 Professor of Law University of Pennsylvania Law School ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farber" <dave () farber net> To: <ip () v2 listbox com> Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:11 AM Subject: [IP] Net neutrality and antitrustseems that is the path we suggested Begin forwarded message: Google says bill could spark antitrust fight Vint Cerf, a Google vice president and one of the pioneers of the Internet, warned that his company won't hesitate to file antitrust complaints in the United States if high-speed Internet providers abuse the market power they could receive from U.S. legislators. There's still room for political maneuvering on both sides of the Net neutrality argument before a bill gets passed. http://ct.zdnet.com/clicks?t=2802573- cf4eb2b70d07133033c66f1cdd38477f- bf&s=5&fs=0 ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/ interesting-people/------------------------------------- You are subscribed as pinneo () sbcglobal net To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/ interesting- people/------------------------------------- You are subscribed as djweitzner () csail mit edu To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting- people/
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- much more on Net neutrality and antitrust David Farber (Jul 06)