more on Yahoo, AOL, Goodmail and IP]]

[Dave Farber <dave () farber net>]

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- -------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Yahoo, AOL, Goodmail and IP]
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:51:11 -0500
From: Charles Stiles <stilesch () aol com>
Reply-To: stilesch () aol com
Organization: America Online, Inc.
To: dave () farber net, ip () v2 listbox com

The fact is that delivery to AOL is, has been, and will continue to be based
upon reputation. The IP list does not need Cindy's intervention or influence
in order to successfully deliver email to AOL. This listserve was added to
AOL's whitelist quite some time ago (a couple of years if my memory serves
me correctly) and will remain so long as it doesn't engage in abusing AOL
members. This is the same whitelist that other bulk mailers use; it will
remain unchanged and continue to be free of charge as long as there is a
need for it and it serves our customer's best interests.

The CertifiedEmail product being offered is an optional, premium upgrade
that wont make economic sense for all organizations/companies. I fully
understand the slippery slope theory associated with email delivery that
involves a fee, but I still have three grades of gasoline to choose from and
the last time I checked, most organizations pay a fee for delivery today.
The difference is that they pay it to someone who cannot "guarantee"
delivery of the message. The service that is being offered is one the layers
upon our existing email service. Mailers have requested to have this option
for the emails that absolutely, positively must get delivered (think
e-tickets, confirmations, and receipts). The consumer still has the last
hand in the game and can always choose to refuse those messages just as they
can choose to affect the delivery of another other type message they
receive.

- --
Charles E. Stiles
Postmaster/Sr. Tech. Mgr.
Mail Operations, America Online
12100 Sunrise Valley Dr, Reston, VA 20191
email: stilesch () aol com ph: 703-265-4864 c:703-220-6530

> - -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [IP] Yahoo, AOL, Goodmail and IP
> Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:44:24 -0800
> From: Cindy Cohn <cindy () eff org>
> To: Russell Nelson <nelson () crynwr com>
> CC: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>, "Danny O'Brien" <danny () eff org>,
>    Ren Bucholz <Ren () eff org>, derek () eff org, Chris Palmer 
> <chris () eff org>
> References: <43EA6390.6080202 () farber net> 
> <17388.14324.307468.837082 () desk crynwr com>
>
> I wouldn't be so sure.
>
> I spent about several weeks last year trying to convince 
> Microsoft that it was not a good idea for it to force 
> Moveon.org to sign up for Bonded Sender.  After Moveon's 
> messages started bouncing, and they tried to get it addressed 
> through the proper antispam channels, they received, 
> repeatedly, the response that Microsoft wasn't going to fix 
> it and that Moveon.org's only option if it wanted to be sure 
> that its messages got through to Microsoft email customers 
> was to sign up with Bonded Sender.
>
> Ultimately because Moveon.org is famous, and they know me, 
> and I know Microsoft's lawyers, I was able to get them to 
> back off.  Bonded Sender is an especially bad idea for an 
> organization that has enemies.  Every time someone reports 
> you as a spammer your bond gets debited and they have grossly 
> insufficient processes to investigate and put the money back 
> if you claim that it's politically motivated.
>
> So yes, if AOL or Yahoo tried the same trick on Dave, I would 
> likely step in and help, and because Dave is famous and I 
> know lawyers at AOL and Yahoo too, it would likely be the 
> case that the threat would go away.
>
> But is that what we want the 'net to become? If you're famous 
> and you have a lawyer friend who has lawyer friends, then you 
> can get your messages through? What about the next IP? The 
> next Politech?  The next Moveon.org (or Eagle Forum or NRA 
> newsletter or whatever--I've helped people from all across 
> the political spectrum and will continue to do so).
>
> And how is Goodmail going to decide who has a nonprofit 
> mailing list?  Dave's not a registered nonprofit.  There are 
> likely thousands, if not millions of mailing lists like 
> Dave's that I think should be protected.  Is Goodmail going 
> to keep a staff of people to research each "nonprofit mailing 
> list" that asks for free permanent access?
>
>
> Cindy


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