Interesting People mailing list archives
more on seeking a forecast
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 19:21:45 -0400
Begin forwarded message: From: Marc <marcaniballi () hotmail com> Date: May 21, 2005 6:49:43 PM EDT To: dave () farber net Subject: RE: [IP] more on seeking a forecast I would add a question or two to this discussion;What makes having your US citizenship stripped from you, such a bad thing? Alright, maybe it's not what everyone WISHES for, but I hardly think it is a
crisis of any real importance to an individual.- American citizens (as a generalised group) are among the least appreciated visitors in the rest of the world. And there are plenty of countries where
citizenship is fairly easy to acquire. - American citizens are the only citizens (that I know of) who must pay taxes in the US, even when they live and work overseas. And they receive only marginal benefit from their tax dollars. By removing someone's citizenship, the "government" is losing a revenuesource, AND they are removing their jurisdiction over the individual. If the individual in question has a second citizenship, then he can call upon his
embassy to step in on his behalf. Because he is no longer an American,jurisdiction becomes quite clearly that of the other embassy. If the reason for removal is a crime - then there is no reason to remove citizenship from a legal/judicial perspective - the only reason I can think of, is to be able to deport criminals and eliminate any means they might have of re- entry. I
can't imagine a good reason to do this, since the end result would be nodifferent than the death penalty - how long will foreign countries accept deported american criminals? So why create the illusion of clemency, when
the illusion has no hope of surviving?I guess my take would be that this will never happen. Anyone committing an
act onerous enough to merit this type of action, is a candidate for life imprisonment or the death penalty. Regards, Marc Aniballi -----Original Message-----From: owner-ip () v2 listbox com [mailto:owner-ip () v2 listbox com] On Behalf Of
David Farber Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:43 PM To: Ip ip Subject: [IP] more on seeking a forecast Begin forwarded message: From: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" <froomkin () law miami edu> Date: May 21, 2005 10:44:30 AM EDT To: David Farber <dave () farber net> Cc: Ip ip <ip () v2 listbox com> Subject: Re: [IP] seeking a forecast Reply-To: froomkin () law tm Strip US citizens of their citizenship so we can torture them as enemy combatants or deport them?1. Citizens by birth: never (not legally anyway - rogues in the executive
branch may claim illegally to have done so but, as the Supreme Courtrecently made it almost clear in the Hamdi and Padilla cases, the executive
branch can't toy with the rights of citizens in this manner.)It would be unconstitutional. Indeed, the principle of citizenship is so fundamental that were the powers that be ever to do such a thing, the nation
they governed wouldn't be the US any more.2. Citizens by naturalization: the question needs additional specification because we do this already in special cases where the government can prove in court that the person lied on their application [e.g. former Nazi prison
guards] or omitted something important. The idea is that the fraudulentacts in the application vitiate the naturalization. Thus, you'd have to say
something like "stripped a naturalized citizen of citizenship for acts committed subsequent to naturalization".At which point the answer should be, and almost certainly will be, see #1,
since we don't have two classes of citizenship for anything other than eligibility to serve as President. On Sat, 21 May 2005, David Farber wrote:
From: Paul Saffo <psaffo () iftf org> Date: May 21, 2005 12:10:38 AM EDT To: Dave Farber <dave () farber net > Subject: seeking a forecast Dave- I would be curious to know from the rest of the IP list when they think that the US will strip an American citizen of their citizenship and toss them overseas, or into a jail cell. Now, there are two layers of possibility: a naturalized American citizen, or a citizen by birth. Anyone willing to make a forecast? best -p
-- http://www.icannwatch.org Personal Blog: http://www.discourse.net A. Michael Froomkin | Professor of Law | froomkin () law tm U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA +1 (305) 284-4285 | +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) | http://www.law.tm -->It's warm here.<-- -------------------------------------You are subscribed as marcaniballi () hotmail com To manage your subscription,
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