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RE: Dave, why do the IP consider recogniti on of cr eationism in afewschool districts so
From: "David Farber" <dave () farber net>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:43:22 -0500
_______________ Forward Header _______________ Subject: RE: [IP] Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of cr eationism in afewschool districts so Author: Marc <marcaniballi () hotmail com> Date: 13th February 2005 12:27:07 pm Dave; For IP if you wish; I may be simply preaching to the choir, but it occurs to me that Neil has subtly answered his own question. Kansas schools aren't the current BIG problem - I agree. They ARE however the place where big problems begin. Today's kids are tomorrow's leaders and voters. As we discuss the decline in the quality of education, we seem to forget that we are living in times that result from the shortcomings of yesterday's educational system. While it may be difficult to link AIDS and Sudanese genocide to American education, it is not to difficult to lay war, Bush and a good measure of global warming at Americans' feet. How did we get here? Because the average American is not broadly educated, lacks basic skills in problem decomposition/resolution and critical thought, and is poorly prepared for the role of citizen in a world class democracy. A system that is by the people, for the people, is only as good as its people! As education fails, so too follows the society. In certain respects, I have to consider that the success of America in the last century was at least somewhat due to the large scale importing of highly educated non-Americans as either immigrants or students. Current xenophobic policy is choking that lifeblood out of the country; Where will the critical thought, and broadly founded imagination, that is necessary for innovation and social evolution, come from? If we deal with the Kansas' of the moment, we will be doomed to deal with their consequences in 20 years. I am not American, but this is swiftly ceasing to be a world with national boundaries - what happens to America happens to the world. What I have found disturbing are the reactions I hear to global polls of education quality that show US students ranking lower than most developped nations; "Who cares if the Swedes are better educated? They don't run the world, we do!" (I wish I was joking) Marc Aniballi -----Original Message----- From: owner-ip () v2 listbox com [mailto:owner-ip () v2 listbox com] On Behalf Of David Farber Sent: February 12, 2005 7:25 PM To: ip () v2 listbox com Subject: [IP] Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of cr eationism in a fewschool districts so _______________ Forward Header _______________ Subject: Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of creationism in a fewschool districts so Author: "Munro, Neil" <NMunro () nationaljournal com> Date: 12th February 2005 5:19:59 pm much more offensive than the crummy math & science scores among so many poor and middle-class Americans? Or the declining number of Americans going into the sciences and engineering? Or, more broadly, why care about Kansas schools when there are so many greater horrors, such as global warming, genocide in Sudan, President Bush, war, AIDS, etc. I'm not defending or attacking creationism, just trying to find out why your folks care so much about the policy of a school board in Kansas. Neil ________________________________ From: owner-ip () v2 listbox com on behalf of n Sent: Sat 2/12/2005 11:16 AM To: ip () v2 listbox com Subject: [IP] Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolu tion theory into theclassroom ----- Original Message ----- From: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq () quarterman org> To: <dave () farber net> Cc: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq () quarterman org>; <ip () v2 listbox com> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolu tion theory into theclassroom
_______________ Forward Header _______________ Subject: Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolution theory into theclassroom Author: David Byrden <iplist () byrden com> Date: 12th February 2005 1:26:23 pm...I think my approach should be used to deflate the Creationists such as Mr. Harris, who said: >> "There are creation myths on both sides. Which one do you teach?" Mr. Harris is wrong; there are more than two sides. Every religion has a different creation myth.And Christianity has at least two: Adam and Eve created simultaneously vs. Eve created out of Adam's side; they're both in Genesis 1. This is well known to every serious student of religion, or, for that matter, to anyone who simply reads that book.If the Creationists force Creation to be taught in schools, the schools should teach every single creation myth from cultures all around the world. This would leave no time for any science in science class - thus making a point - and would undermine the students' unthinking acceptance of Christianity.Or at least undermine their unthinking acceptance of some particular sect's interpretation of Genesis as representing Christianity. After all, when did Bishop Ussher's dating of Creation to 4004 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher become more important than the Sermon on the Mount or the parable of the Good Samaritan? David has said what I haven't seen many people say: the response that will succeed to a creationist attack on evolution is not to circle the wagons around evolution or even around science. It is to counterattack against the creationists' version of religion and
Christianity.
This isn't something that many of us particularly want to do; science isn't about attacking religion; it is about science. However, this isn't science; it is politics. What creationists believe and teach in their own homes and churches is their affair. But when they interject their dogma into public school systems as fact, they expose it for critical examination, not to mention ridicule.David-jsq
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