more on Talking Points: The So-Called War on Christmas - New York Times

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq () quarterman org>
Date: December 17, 2005 12:19:16 PM EST
To: dave () farber net
Cc: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq () quarterman org>
Cc: ip () v2 listbox com
Subject: Re: [IP] more on Talking Points: The So-Called War on  
Christmas - New York Times

> From: Bob Frankston <Bob2-19-0501 () bobf frankston com>
> Date: December 16, 2005 7:19:58 PM EST
> To: dave () farber net, ip () v2 listbox com
> Subject: RE: [IP] Talking Points: The So-Called War on Christmas -
> New York Times

> ...

> There seems to be a tendency for those who hold to "values" to fear
> threats from others as if the values were so fragile that they
> couldn't survive on their own.

And there's a tendency for other people to fall for the reactionary  
framing
of discourse in which only they have values.  I think separation of  
church
and state is an instance of a value of tolerance, and I think it's a  
good one.
I also think reactionaries aren't the only people who value family.

> http://select.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/opinion/ 
> 14talkingpoints.main.html?pagewanted=all

> ...

> ...Religious conservatives are using Christmas for a political
> purpose: as a cudgel to push the prayers and displays of their own
> form of Christianity into public spaces, including public schools,
> and to make America more like a theocracy.

It seems to me that Christians should support the values of their  
founder,
and I don't see anywhere in the Bible where Jesus promoted  
commercialism.
As far as church and state, what about:
 "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's
  and unto God the things that are God's."

This whole made-up War on Christianity "controversy" isn't about  
religion.
It's about political power and money.  The actual Christians who fall  
for
it are having their fears exploited so they can be used as pawns in the
real game.

Real Christians should want separation of church and state, since it
protects them from people who will push their version of the religion
on everybody else.

-jsq

PS: I recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345391691/102-2315090-2885712? 
v=glance&n=283155

The Battle for God, by Karen Armstrong

It's about what is popularly called fundamentalism, which above I have
called reactionaries.  She looks at this phenomenon in three religions:
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.  One of her points is that
fundamentalists seldom actually go back to fundamentals.  Usually they
invent radical new doctrines in reaction to changes in society and then
pass them off as conservative.  And they play on the fears of their base
to do so.


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