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more on query on eliminating pork piling up on war funding bill - QUESTION
From: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:00:35 -0400
------ Forwarded Message From: Herb Lin <HLin () nas edu> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:19:25 -0400 To: dave () farber net Cc: tongia () andrew cmu edu Subject: Re: [IP] query on eliminating pork piling up on war funding bill - QUESTION The House has a rule that amendments to legislation must be "germane." To the best of my knowledge, the Senate has no such rule. Conferences, where House and Senate versions are reconciled, also have no such rules. Herb Lin (former Congressional staff member) == From http://www.house.gov/rules/98-426.htm The Germaneness Requirement In addition to such general restrictions, clause 7 of House Rule XVI also requires that each amendment must be germane to the text it would amend. This is a reasonable and simple principle, but one that can be difficult to apply in practice. Volumes 10 and 11 of Deschler's Precedents of the House of Representatives devote almost 2,000 pages to the germaneness rule and its application. To be germane, it is not sufficient that the amendment be relevant to the bill the House is considering or even to the section or title of the bill that the amendment would change. It is quite possible for an amendment to be relevant without satisfying the more technical standards of germaneness. In the commentary that follows the text of the germaneness rule in the House Rules and Manual, the House parliamentarian identifies three tests of germaneness: subject matter, fundamental purpose, and committee jurisdiction. To be germane: (1) "an amendment must relate to the subject matter under consideration;" (2) "the fundamental purpose of an amendment must be germane to the fundamental purpose of the bill;" and (3) "an amendment when considered as a whole should be within the jurisdiction of the committee reporting the bill." None of these tests is always conclusive, nor is one of them necessarily more controlling than the others. Furthermore, an amendment may satisfy all three of these tests and still not be germane. To help explain this possibility, the parliamentarian also elaborates several principles of germaneness, including the following: (1) "one individual proposition may not be amended by another individual proposition even though the two belong to the same class;" and (2) "a specific subject may not be amended by a provision general in nature, even when of the class of the specific subject; but (3) "a general subject may be amended by specific propositions of the same class." Members frequently consult with the House parliamentarian before offering their amendments to be certain that the amendments are in order. Dave Farber <dave () farber net> on 04/09/2003 03:28:38 AM Please respond to dave () farber net To: ip <ip () v2 listbox com> cc: (bcc: Herb Lin/NationalAcademies) Subject: [IP] query on eliminating pork piling up on war funding bill - QUESTION ------ Forwarded Message From: Rahul Tongia <tongia () andrew cmu edu> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 22:17:02 -0400 To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] pork piling up on war funding bill - QUESTION Dave, I don't know if you encourage, allow, or even tolerate questions posted to the IP list, but I have a burning question about legislation, and I am not skilled enough to answer. *Can the system be modified to disallow unrelated amendments/riders from becoming attached?* The key is *unrelated*. Not only were there the riders you posted about, but people remember the stealth cover given to Eli Lily, recently. While some people argue that these make efficiency or procedural sense, I would counter that the minimal benefit is undone by the passage of bills that otherwise would not stand on their own. Can anyone enlighten me on this? Given that the courts have struck down line-item vetoes, which congress allowed on recognition of their own fiscal indiscipline, is there a better answer than "Separate Enrollment" or "Expedited Rescission?" Thanks, Rahul Tongia tongia () cmu edu ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as hlin () nas edu To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as interesting-people () lists elistx com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
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- more on query on eliminating pork piling up on war funding bill - QUESTION Dave Farber (Apr 13)