IP: Roger Clarke on FBI wanting to cast aside civil liberties

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

> From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
>
> [I agree with the thrust of Roger's comments, but I'm not sure 
> international treaties are a measure of how civilized a nation and a 
> people are. Governments may formally sign conventions and realistically 
> ignore them. I'd say the measure of civilization depends on respect for 
> people, life, and property, on tolerance for dissenting political and 
> religious views, on willingness not to reject technological advancements, 
> on a commitment to defending our nation while staying true to the 
> Constitution, and so on. Alas, by those measures, the U.S. is not doing so 
> well either. --Declan]
>
> ********
>
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:31:41 +1000
> From: Roger Clarke <Roger.Clarke () xamax com au>
> Subject: FC: FBI wants to cast aside civil liberties, torture mentioned
> Cc: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
>
> > Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:23:02 -0700
> > To: politech () politechbot com
> > From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
> >
> > From: staff () rotten com
> > To: declan () well com
> > Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 07:09:57 -0700
> >
> > This is a very scary opening sentence:
> >
> > "FBI and Justice Department investigators are increasingly frustrated by 
> > the silence of jailed suspected associates of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda 
> > network, and some are beginning to that say that traditional civil 
> > liberties may have to be cast aside if they are to extract information 
> > about the Sept. 11 attacks and terrorist plans."
> >
> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/specials/attacked/A27748-2001Oct20.html
>
>
> If the USA wanted to convince us how dangerous they are, not to say 
> downright uncivilised, then they're doing well.
>
> A mere 40 days in the wilderness, and its President has instructed its 
> security agencies to conduct assassinations, and now his law enforcement 
> agencies are softening people up with a view to suspending UDHR, ICCPR, oh 
> yes and probably the country's own Constitution.
>
> Given that Bush has frequently (incorrectly) referred to the campaign as a 
> war, I guess we can safely assume that he's happy to suspend (or just 
> ignore) the Geneva Convention as well.  Which of the institutions that 
> define 'civilisation' are left intact?
>
> It's one thing to feel sympathy with people frustrated by their inability 
> to extract information, and fearful of attacks more effective than anthrax 
> in envelopes.  But it's another to revert to the morality of the stone age.
>
> --
> Roger Clarke              http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/
>
> Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA
>                 Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916
> mailto:Roger.Clarke () xamax com au         http://www.xamax.com.au/
>
> Visiting Fellow                       Department of Computer Science
> The Australian National University     Canberra  ACT  0200 AUSTRALIA
> Information Sciences Building Room 211       Tel:  +61  2  6125 3666


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