funsec mailing list archives
Re: Off Topic: Heads Up
From: "Kyle C. Quest" <kyle.c.quest () gmail com>
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:02:31 -0400
This is getting a bit political... nonetheless it is related to security... even though it's a different kind :-) Several points: 1. Cubin crisis in the 60s was actually initiated by the US when we put our nukes in Turkey, which was right next to USSR. Soviets put their nukes next to the States as a response. It's funny how Americans were outraged about the Soviet nukes in Cuba while it was completely fine for the US to put our own nukes right next to the Soviet Union. 2. Ukraine government is trying to artificially escalate tensions between them and Russia to make them look like victims. It's really like a twin brother trying to pick a fight with another brother to get the other brother in trouble... This is a shady political move to get into NATO fast. It's not clear if it'll pay off. It'll largely depend on how well Russians execute the 6 point peace agreement starting with the timely withdrawal from Georgia (unfortunately they are not doing a good job right now; they need to deliver on what they promised to build a trust with the Europeans and they need to do a better job at communicating what's going on and what they are doing, otherwise, the US will be successful at painting them as new Soviets, who want to take over the world, which is not the case at all...) 3. Russian government is angry because it's being targeted unfairly and it's been being pushed around for many years. It started way back when the US promised that they will not try to suck into NATO former eastern block countries. It continued through the years by us completely disrespecting Russia where Kosovo and new defense systems in Poland are the latest slaps in their face. We, the US, still can't let go of the Cold War mentality... not only towards Russia, but other countries as well. At the same time we managed to scare and brainwash our people into thinking that the only way to protect our freedom is by invading other countries. Bush and Rice keep saying how Russians are bullies and how it's unacceptable to attack other countries... and how territorial integrity must be respected... and how going into Georgia itself is a clear attempt to take over Georgia and it has nothing to do with protecting S. Ossetia. They keep repeating it over and over... hoping that people will believe it. It looks a lot of our media is pushing the same points. This is sad... because we (the US people) really don't care about the world around us. We have a very short memory span and we are very famous for not knowing much about history (i'm talking about us as a nation). This is also dangerous because it gives our government an opportunity to scare us into giving them any power they ask for (to do whatever they want to) just by simply throwing carefully selected scary sounding bits of information that wouldn't stand a chance if we paid attention. Why did we go into Vietnam? Was it about freedom and liberation? What did it have to do with protection of our freedom in America? We went their because we simply didn't want a pro-communist government. We didn't want communism to spread. Sure it wasn't our goal to kill a huge number of people by sending our troops their. Obviously we didn't go there just because we wanted to kill some people. Unfortunately a lot of people did die. They died because we brought a huge war to their country. If we didn't go most of the Vietnamese people wouldn't die and none of our solders would have dies. But it happened... and it's all because of our political games. These political games are still very active. We keep saying one thing, but doing something different. When USSR dissolved we promised that NATO will not expand... What happened? We broke that promise. NATO expended into eastern block countries and even former Soviet republics. And now our government is trying to push even further by sucking in Georgia and Ukraine into it. We keep putting our military closer and closer to Russian borders, but we keep saying that they have nothing to worry about because that's not against them. It's like me putting a mine on my neighbor doorstep and then saying that it's for protection against terrorists in Sudan. Anybody with a bit of logic can see the real intent. Our hypocrisy seems to have no limit... We say Russians are bullies while we are engaged in the biggest bullying campaign ever. If somebody doesn't want to do what we want we reach for our guns. We say that territorial integrity and internationally recognized borders must be respected, but just a little while ago we were the ones splitting Kosovo from Serbia saying that they have the right to be independent. We say invading another country is unacceptable, but, at the same time, we it's ok if we or Israel does it. We say that even if Russians were trying to protect S.Ossetia there's no valid reason to go any further once the protected province was cleared; however, we completely forget that during the first Iraq war when we were liberating Kuwait we didn't just stop at the Kuwait border... we kept going way deep into Iraq. If our government does succeed in bringing Ukraine into NATO it'll be because Russians screw up and don't deliver on their promises. Then the Europeans will have no choice... and they'll cave in. If it does happen, it won't be pretty and it will escalate the relationships. This new Cold War will be our fault. The irony is that it will be the final nail in our coffin and it'll mark the demise of the US. That's when China will rapidly become the only super power. They are, at least, one third way there. While we are trying to spread democracy with our weapons China is taking over Asia, Africa, and South America with their money. They even hold the "red button" for the next American great depression. Once they decide it's time... they'll press that red button and we'll turn into a third world country. On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:14 PM, John C. A. Bambenek, GCIH, CISSP <bambenek.infosec () gmail com> wrote:
So who wants to do a pool on when Ukraine becomes a NATO member? On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 2:37 AM, Paul Ferguson <fergdawg () netzero net> wrote:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Not really being covered in "mainstream media": http://en.rian.ru/world/20080818/116096709.html http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/1010/42/369855.htm Some really dangerous international issues, which deserve your attention. FYI, - - ferg p.s. And be sure, scammers will try to capitalize on the news. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.3 (Build 3017) wj8DBQFIqSa1q1pz9mNUZTMRApmZAKCiesccXdJeNEhQA6j/jn/D27lvGwCgvLhX nrNlFiGjFMEwBuisX2lXUV8= =fuzB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(at)netzero.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list._______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
_______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Current thread:
- Off Topic: Heads Up Paul Ferguson (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up John C. A. Bambenek, GCIH, CISSP (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Richard M. Smith (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Kyle C. Quest (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Chris Blask (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah (Aug 18)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Daniel H. Renner (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Valdis . Kletnieks (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Tomas L. Byrnes (Aug 19)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Valdis . Kletnieks (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Paul Ferguson (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Kyle C. Quest (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Paul Ferguson (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Kyle C. Quest (Aug 18)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up Paul Ferguson (Aug 18)
(Thread continues...)
- Re: Off Topic: Heads Up John C. A. Bambenek, GCIH, CISSP (Aug 18)