Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Fw: when did piracy/theft become expression offreedom
From: "Jerry dePriest" <jerryde () mc net>
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 05:35:47 -0600
Metallica used to encourage fans to record "bootlegs" and share with those who didnt/wouldnt/couldnt attend the shows. Now look at them:-( Metallica sucks btw ever since their heads got to big to fit up thier asses. This was around the time Cliff died. The way they treated Jason Newsted was just plain wrong, but thats another subject... I see I sparked a major debate which is what I was looking for but no one has addressed the fact that the feds will do what they want. By enacting laws we can be sure of the boundries they can/will cross. ( I know, everyone will still find ways to steal) I think google and such should be held accountable for encouraging the acts. I forsee Kimble doing Mitnick time... Im all for PIPA in a modified form. Im not running 65000 servers that are based near Langley. Only a tool shats in the FBI's backyard and doesnt bring a bag to clean it up or at least cover it. Im filling papers to patent 1's and 0's. Just like the guy a few years back who tried to patent the wheel... Its futile but i will get free publicity. bma ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Morris" <cmorris () cs odu edu> To: <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> Cc: <full-disclosure () lists grok org uk>; "Zach C." <fxchip () gmail com> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] when did piracy/theft become expression offreedom Dear Valdis and whoever else; The really ridiculous points are the following: A) Every time you execute/install/download a program you are committing evil data theft by not only copying "secret" or "illegal" information into RAM/Disk/Registers/Buffers/Busses/photons coming off the screen/human memory/history of the universe but potentially not just your physical property but on hundreds of routers and deduplication boxen around the earth. B) You can't "copyright" or "own" a number, all digital representations are numbers, due to the boolean nature (no fuzzy data), etc. C) Any data is a form of any other data given a specific transform, e.g. manifold / encryption key + algo, something as trivial as XOR D) You guys already know these points so why do we even care anymore about what these people say? Why even have these conversations. They will never stop. It's about greed and shortsightedness, not about what is moral or logical. Just try to ignore them or change the subject when the parrots start talking. And to preempt the flames from the blind, Yes I feel artists should be compensated for their contribution. It's 5am- bye. On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 5:26 PM, <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:02:09 PST, "Zach C." said:If you buy an album used, the seller generally loses possession of it, you gain possession of it at a reduced cost, and the original purchase still gave the original seller and producer value.Note that if I shoplift a CD that sucks and isn't worth the $14.99 sticker price, I have deprived the producer of the ability to sell it to somebody else. That's the crucial point that underlies our social concept of "theft" - if I take it from you, you don't have it anymore. If I copy an album that isn't worth the sticker price, and which I would not have purchased at that price, two things of note happen: 1) As much as the labels wish it were so, they can't count that as "lost revenue" because it wouldn't have acccrued to them anyhow, any more than a car dealership can legitimately call it "lost revenue" if I walk onto their lot, tell the salescritter they're crazy if they think I'll pay $28K for a given car, and walk off the lot. (Now, if they want to count the "Damn, we lost the $4.99 that guy *would* have paid if we charged that instead of $14.99", they're welcome to that. :) 2) More importantly, they still have the original bits and are free to look for other suckers who *will* pay $14.99. For the record, all my media is legitimately acquired, though a large portion *was* obtained used and if the producers don't like that, they're welcome to go re-read "first sale doctrine" ;) Just trying to make people actually engage their neurons - this stuff is *not* easy to sort out, because intellectual property and digital information do *not* behave the same as cars and cows in the physical world, and unintended consequences of policy decisions are all *over* the place. (DMCA anti-circumvention clause prohibiting me from fair-use accessing my own media, I'm looking at you. :) _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
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- Fw: when did piracy/theft become expression offreedom Jerry dePriest (Jan 29)