Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator.
From: Nelson Brito <nbrito () sekure org>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:15:50 -0300
Last message to you, kid. NNG was released in September 2008, and it doesn't mean it's not older than that. And I see you've checked my background... Good! Are you gonna to hire me? Maybe I could teach you how to deal with real Perl, such as: {(!($^O=~/^[M]*$32/i)&&($0=~s!^.*/!!))||($0=~s!.*\\!!)}$0; Cheers. Nelson Brito Security Researcher http://fnstenv.blogspot.com/ Sent on an iPhone wireless device. Please, forgive any potential misspellings! On Jul 6, 2010, at 1:01 AM, "epixoip" <epixoip () hush com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 19:02:12 -0700 Nelson Brito <nbrito () sekure org> wrote:One more thing, just for the records and being polite: nobody works on such "bad idea" anymore...Somehow you've gone from "you stole my idea and you need to give me credit, and here's the download link" to "well, it's a bad idea and nobody does it anymore." Your tool (which you now claim isn't a tool) was just released 20 months ago -- six to eight years after tools like Snot and IDSwakeup were released, and far less effective than those tools. So what you're essentially saying here is your own work was irrelevant. Well, at least you admit it.Why? Because doesn't make any sense you doing so many noise toevadean IPS.Ah, I see. You're using reverse psychology. The tool doesn't make any sense, so why not go ahead and throw a little credit your way, right? Honestly, I couldn't care less what your "professional" opinion is, and I still refuse to credit your work. I will, however, continue to give full credit to tools like Snot and snortspoof, regardless of their post-development discovery.There much more effectiveness ways to do it without "scream wolf", little boy.Of course there are more effective techniques for IDS evasion, and there's nothing stopping you from employing those techniques as well, especially in tandem with Inundator. I guess that thought never crossed your mind. If you decide to use that idea though, I demand you give me full credit and prove a backlink to this post.Best regards. PS: Keep playing with "incubator"I'm not entirely sure how calling it 'incubator' is an insult, but I suppose I'll pretend to be insulted.and let the real work for the pros.And what sort of "real work" might you be doing? I'm curious to know what sort of "pro work" one with "12 years of experience in high-tek" does. Perhaps you're working on your "PATENT PENDING" ENG++? By the way, here's a shell script to replace NNG: while [ 1 ]; do printf "\x68\x2E\x64\x6C\x6C\x68\x65\x6C\x33\x32\x68\x6B\x65\x72\x6E\n" | nc -v $1 1434 done Again, if you're going to use that, you must give me full credit and provide a backlink to this post. I'm super duper serious.Nelson Brito Security Researcher http://fnstenv.blogspot.com/ Sent on an iPhone wireless device. Please, forgive any potential misspellings! On Jul 5, 2010, at 7:56 PM, "epixoip" <epixoip () hush com> wrote:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Oh, for fuck's sake... <acerbity> Wow, you've really called us out on this one. How embarrassingforus. Please accept our sincerest apologies, Mr. Brito. We nowunderstandhow phrases like "inundator is a modern twist on an old concept" and "Snot, fwsnort's snortspoof, and possibly others beat us tothepunch" can be incredibly obtuse and largely indecipherable, requiring *at least* a third grade education for full comprehension. We accept full responsibility for failing towritethis announcement with the lowest common denominator in mind,andpromise to limit our vocabulary to only words found on http://simple.wikipedia.org in future posts. Also, thank you for taking the time to hi-jack our announcementbylinking to your incredibly superior NNG tool. We failed toincludeit in our list of credits, and it brings us much shame. Please excuse us while we prepare for Seppuku. </acerbity> To set the record straight right up front, we never stated thiswasan original idea. In fact, we clearly stated this was *NOT* an original idea. And we *DID,* in fact, credit SNOT -- andfwsnort'ssnortspoof as well -- even though we discovered them after wehadalready begun working on Inundator. We didn't credit IDSwakeup, because while IDSwakeup is kind of cool, it uses a static set payloads to generate the false positives, and we use a dynamicset.We thought parsing Snort's rules files to dynamically buildattackpayloads was at least original, but when we learned otherwise,wecredited the only other two apps we could find that didsomethingsimilar: SNOT and snortspoof. So we're definitely going out ofourway here to give credit where credit is due, even though we hadnoknowledge of these applications when we thought of the concept. Again, all of this was clearly explained in plain English. Now then, back to you. At first I presumed you were just a self-important moron who couldn't be bothered to actually read the full text of the announcement before crafting your witty reply on your iPhone and publicly embarrassing yourself on four separate mailing lists concurrently. That is until I paid a visit to your outstanding little blog, and realized that not only are you a self-important queef, but you're also a little fucking crybaby who wants credit and attention for every original thought you didn't have. As we can clearly see from your blog, "ANY INFORMATION TAKENFROMTHIS BLOG MUST GIVE THE CREDITS TO THE AUTHOR AND ADD A BACKLINKTOTHE ORIGINAL ARTICLE." This must mean you observed some parallel between NNG and Inundator, and thus feel we should be giving you some sort of credit and a backlink (although I suppose thebacklinkhas already been covered by you douching all over this thread.) Let's see what sort of parallels could possibly exist betweenNNGand Inundator: From http://packetstormsecurity.org/filedesc/nng-4.13r- public.rar.html: "Description: NNG is a tool that creates crafted packets tocauseMS02-039 false-positives against IPS/IDS. NNG does not have the same approach used by Snot and Stick, where the main goal isDoSingthe IPS. Instead, NNG tries to make IPS/IDS "numbed" enough tohavethe leakage of real attack. "Author: Nelson Brito" First of all, I don't think SNOT's main goal was to DoS the IPS,asyou so cleverly state. Second, I have no fucking clue what "NNG tries to make IPS/IDS 'numbed' enough to have the leakage ofrealattack" is even supposed to mean. I see some English wordsthere,but that sentence means fuck-all. So from what I can gather, your little tool is capable of send a single packet mimicking MS02-039. Bra-fucking-vo, howinnovative.So it isn't multi-threaded, no attempt is made to send theattackanonymously, you're using a single static payload, and you essentially have little to no user configuration at all. What'sthepoint? I actually have no idea what the actual goal of NNG is, other than to serve as a POC for why pattern matching is full of fail. But then again, that's something we've known for over a decade (although I see you still give presentations on the topicasif it were both new and original), so again -- what is the pointofNNG? Even snortspoof, though dated and pretty much useless by today's standards, is vastly more impressive than NNG, as it at least makes an attempt to anonymize attacks and dynamicallyparsesan array of signatures to generate an attack instead of hard-codingONE payload. Who are you giving credit to for NNG, by the way?Ohthat's right -- yourself, even though there is literally nothing original about NNG. By the way, I like how you have a file named "Authors" in the NNG source tarball, where you list yourself and your contact information twice. Your pathetic piece of shit doesn't even come close to what Inundator does, so why the fuck would we give NNG credit? Wereyouso disillusioned by your own self-importance that you honestlysawa parallel between NNG and Inundator? Or perhaps you were just trying to drive traffic to your little piece of shit by linking everyone to it after trying to make yourself look superior? No,Ihonestly think your cunt start aching at the thought of us crediting SNOT and snortspoof, but not NNG. Reality is a bitch,huh.Here's my advice to you, Mr. Brito: slap some vagisil on your aching pussy and shut the fuck up. Nobody has heard of you, and nobody has heard of NNG. Get over yourself. Oh, and Inundator is still available at http://inundator.sourceforge.net/ Stay classy, /epixoip. On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 09:51:48 -0700 Nelson Brito<nbrito () sekure org>wrote:That is not new and you should give the credits, not just forNNG(http://packetstormsecurity.org/filedesc/nng-4.13r- public.rar.html), but you are missing STICK, SNOT and and IDSWAKEUP as well. Nelson Brito Security Researcher http://fnstenv.blogspot.com/ Sent on an iPhone wireless device. Please, forgive anypotentialmisspellings! On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:25 PM, "epixoip" <epixoip () hush com>wrote:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 homepage: http://inundator.bindshell.nl/ deb repo: deb http://inundator.sourceforge.net/repo/ all/ gpg key : http://inundator.sourceforge.net/inundator.asc Announcing the release of inundator v0.5! inundator is a modern twist on an old concept -- it's an IDS/IPS/WAF evasion tool, used to anonymously flood intrusion detection systems with false positives in order to obfuscate arealattack. inundator leverages the vagueness and poor quality of Snort's rules files to generate completely harmless packets /HTTPrequests that contain just enough keywords to trigger a false positive. We thought this was an original idea, but it lookslikeSnot, fwsnort's snortspoof, and possibly others beat us to the punch. However, these tools were developed around the turn ofthecentury, are quite dated and well-forgotten, and overall quite inferior to inundator. inundator is full featured, multi-threaded, queue-based,supportsmultiple targets, and requires the use of a SOCKS proxy for anonymization. Via Tor, inundator is capable of generatingaround1000 false positives per minute. Via a high-bandwidth SOCKSproxy,you might be able to generate ten times that amount. The general idea is one would launch inundator prior tostartinganattack, allow it to run during the attack, and continue to runit awhile longer after you've accomplished the attack. The goal,ofcourse, is to generate an overwhelming number of falsepositivessothat your real attack is essentially buried within the other alerts, minimizing the chance of your attack being detected.Itcould also be used to ruin an IDS analyst's day, or keep an organization's infosec department busy for a while. I supposeitcould also be used to test the effectiveness of an IDS, butno,notreally. inundator is implemented in Perl (version >= 5.10 isrecommendeddue to ithreads bugs in previous versions), and has beentestedonDebian Lenny, Debian Squeeze, Ubuntu Jaunty, BackTrack4, andMacOSX against Snort v2.8.5.2. It is presumed to work on all POSIX operating systems. Hell, it might even work on Windows. /epixoip.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Charset: UTF8 Note: This signature can be verified athttps://www.hushtools.com/verifyVersion: Hush 3.0wpwEAQMCAAYFAkwyYxEACgkQacHgESW3wZrghAQAoaUr7ZCmRKhpVs86cvXCHphwB/V 9XCmQFCodPp6puHkCe0KqonLXBLCrW92qjVObOxW8TYlb56JKrZs0EV/jGLKUSrlcfgh 70/UMwH/vAL0C+PowgHuWFZSGSpLsKk5vUC+9YrKz0/oRkCVj4Ypks6Rd+VAUetzuNIe TW60Z6o0= =uHzo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----------BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Charset: UTF8 Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify Version: Hush 3.0 wpwEAQMCAAYFAkwyqqYACgkQacHgESW3wZq22gP7Bisp36Tfco5+nvNFHBKYyxd7EW8a 4wQxbya29L3BxP7fF+V/hqlNQbdEPOeW6EnpPh71laO9PSl7jsPJsGdyLRE51JAcRoxp UXr+d6VPf5lbQ6E7KHLPvtd33+HPA8nBgfY+uD/uqt3qda2o8xihefx2rnKGPqI1jKE8 r6Hha9g= =nPAL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Current thread:
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. epixoip (Jul 05)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Nelson Brito (Jul 05)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Nelson Brito (Jul 05)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Adriel Desautels (Jul 06)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. epixoip (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Nelson Brito (Jul 05)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. epixoip (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Nelson Brito (Jul 05)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Jubei Trippataka (Jul 05)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Nelson Brito (Jul 05)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. epixoip (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Nelson Brito (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Valdis . Kletnieks (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Nelson Brito (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. nelsonburrito (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. musnt live (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. NOC (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. Christian Sciberras (Jul 06)
- Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection false positives generator. musnt live (Jul 06)