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From: full-disclosure () lists netsys com (sockz loves you)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:14:00 -0500
Dear Len Rose, I felt it appropriate to pick apart your argument in-text.
I'd like to mention a few things that have been on my mind. There are many people who'd like to see this list disappear, and not just the so-called "black-hats".
no. politicians, businesses, and even pre-school teachers (and yes even pre- school teachers, i know because i talked to them and asked them what they thought, seeing as they are bringing up the next generation of hackers)
The list was founded with the idea that moderation, censorship, and misuse of the information that the community contributed was evil, and should be stopped.
how can you argue, on the one hand, that the misuse of information should be stopped. yet... on the other, provide information that is used by recondite lamers in a destructive manner? by posting freely here you are helping people misuse information. how can you not see that?
The very people who are defecating in public on this list, should realize that they are in fact defecating on their own silver platter.
i am an individual of very strong values. and most of my values are against public defecation. i dont condone it at all. though i think if people have to defecate anywhere, at least if they defecate on their own silver platter it remains their responsibility to clean.
This platter being handed to them by someone who wanted to provide a place where they could share ideas, communicate their opinions, and to be heard equally without being stifled in any manner.
in other words, a place for whitehats to share their shit yeah? i can under- stand where you are coming from, Len. really i do. but you must realise that its this shit that destroys society. trading that kind of stuff is foul. and unsanitary. and if you enjoy that kind of thing then i suggest you seek help before your defecation fetishes knock you up with a few diseases.
There are no hats, there are only hackers. People like to organize the world into little boxes, but unfortunately, it isn't that simple.
no its not like that at all, Len. there are hats. and whitehats aren't hackers. though if you DO want to argue the opposite, we can do that too. see these concepts exist without definition of whitehat or blackhat. if you hack, then you are a hacker. if you try and stop a hacker, then you musn't be one. cuz that would ultimately mean suicide. its thats simple.
You cannot condemn once side or the other at all times, you can only condemn specific actions by specific people, at specific actions. There is no black or white, there are only shades.
no you're wrong. i can condemn whoever i like. just like the law will condemn anyone it likes... or dislikes, rather. its all about solidarity, Len. who's side are you on?
This list takes no position on anything other than the desire to communicate without moderation, censorship, misuse of the information shared, and the delay of shared information. If there is anything that my life has taught me, it's been that nothing worth anything is without a price. I've paid that price, and am still paying.
how peachy.
We will not moderate the list. The list will not go away, and we hope that everyone can see the situation for what it is. Len
i hope so too, Len. i hope you all wake up and realise what a moral wrong you are all doing by giving the name "hacker" a sullied reputation. just remember, it is never too late to change. never. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
Current thread:
- Administrivia Len Rose (Aug 15)
- Administrivia Marco van Berkum (Aug 15)
- Administrivia Joerg Mayer (Aug 15)
- Administrivia Azerail (Aug 15)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Administrivia sockz loves you (Aug 15)
- Administrivia sockz loves you (Aug 16)
- true hacker apostasy full-disclosure () lists netsys com (Aug 16)
- Administrivia Scott Francis (Aug 16)
- Administrivia Len Rose (Aug 16)
- Administrivia ATD (Aug 28)
- Administrivia KF (Aug 28)
- Administrivia ATD (Aug 28)
- Administrivia ATD (Aug 28)
- Administrivia Schmehl, Paul L (Aug 16)
- Administrivia sockz loves you (Aug 16)
- Administrivia Len Rose (Aug 17)