Re: IDS is dead, etc

[Scott Wimer <scottw () cylant com>]

Bennet,

Here's the quote about perfecty implemented firewalls that I think is 
germain.  Hopefully I'm not taking it out of context:
        "A perfectly implemented firewall allows no protocols
        through for which there are vulnerable implementations
        inside. That means it's impossible to implement a
        perfect firewall if you're going to allow Windows
        users to have internet access."

I may very well be putting words in your mouth (for which I 
appologize) when I write about the silliness of expecting that any 
protocol will be implemented vulnerability free -- on any platform.

Bennett Todd wrote:

> I've heard of one device that I can believe can alert on a
> heretofore totally unknown exploit. Not all of 'em, of course, but
> some. That's Mazu Networks's enforcer/profiler gizmos. I myself
> wouldn't call 'em an IDS, I think they're something different, much
> more valuable, and their IDS functionality is the smallest part of
> what they're good at. To my tastes, their host classification and
> "what-if" modelling are the really hot capabilities. If they were as
> affordable as an IDS, then I think they'd help bolster your claim,
> but they really are something else and different.

After a brief review of Mazu's Profiler and Enforcer docs, I'm 
currious how it handles attacks that come in via encrypted means.

I'm not convinced that a NIDS can be more than a network management 
tool.  With the caveat for things like floods of various types.  From 
what I've seen, to detect and respond to all categories of exploits in 
a timely manner requires some sort of defense mechanism implemnted at 
the host.  This prejudice may come from the work we do on host based 
IPS systems though.  But, it's the only way I've seen to reliably stop 
exploits whether they are previously known or not.

Regards,
scottwimer
--
Scott M. Wimer, CTO                      Cylant
www.cylant.com                           121 Sweet Ave.
v. (208) 883-4892                        Suite 123
c. (208) 301-0370                        Moscow, ID 83843
There is no Security without Control.


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