RE: present day admin skills

[Thomas Ray <thomas.ray () tcud state tx us>]

After seeing this thread start a forest fire, I've been watching it to see
where the consensus of thought is headed. I think I have it broken down into
two different camps.

        On the one hand, we have people (no names mentioned) who believe
that others out there are lazy, don't care, just want the money, etc
(flavor-excuse of the month). They believe that the "unqualified" IT people
have no business working in the job if they can't cut it and learn on their
own. No if's, and's, or but's.

        On the other hand, we have people (me included) who are trying to do
our jobs with the skill sets we desperately seek and would gladly trade a
week's vacation or our next payraise for receiving some training. As George
put it below, "...the worst consequence of this [management support of lack
of training] is the effect it has on the enthusiasm and desire to excel in
one's work".

        The first group says "You must not want it that bad if you fail to
learn it on your own".  The second group says "We want to learn, just show
us the way".

        As I mentioned before, I'd give up a payraise to get some training.
My education is woefully deficient in the *nix world. For me, it also helps
if I am actually working on something, like Linux or Firewalls, with a
mentor available to ask questions of. Now, some people may say I am lazy
because I don't have the gumption to figure it out for myself. I would say
that people holding that opinion are too damn lazy to help guide their
lessers. I know a guy 10 years younger than me (he's mid-20's), only got a
2yr liberal arts degree. And yet, he was the lead instructor at a M$ ATEC
because he was smart! This guy is one of those people who could pick up a
book about a new technology, read it, and then understand it immediately. I
saw him do it several times. I'd find out what he was working on, take a
look at it myself, and be hopelessly lost until he explained it in less than
30 minutes. Am I jealous? Heck yeah! I'd like to be able to pick up stuff
just like that! Can I do it? It depends on what field you are talking about.
I'm not going to look down on Joe Blow just because he's a Linux guru who
has never worked with NT.  By the same token, he shouldn't be looking down
on me just because I have trouble learning Linux. We've all got our special
skills depending on what we've worked on or studied.

        When I was in the U.S. Navy, stationed on a submarine, all
non-qualified personnel were required to attend a once-a-week class called
"School of the Boat". In that 2 hr long session, one of the qualified
enlisted men would present a topic about a certain aspect of the submarine.
This was intended to educate personnel and let them ask questions for
clarification. I wish I could see something like that in the corporate
world. All too often, it doesn't happen due to time, money, and scheduling
constraints. Management HAS to make the decision on the investment they want
to make in their personnel.  They're afraid they will lose employees due to
advanced training? That being the case, explain why USAA insurance based in
San Antonio, TX has an annual employee turnover rate of less than 4%? And
that is with more than 15,000 employees. And the primary reasons for
turnover are 1)retirement, and 2)wives of military personnel being
transferred. I would love to work at USAA. Excellent pay, excellent
benefits, 4-day work week, take care of their customers (I'm one of them),
and lots of training opportunities.

        Let's face facts. We can't always get what we want. I won't get a
lot of training right now because (1) that kind of training is not part of
my job description, even though it is "other duties as assigned", and, (2)
my employer can't afford to pay for it due to a limited budget. That 16 yr
old CISSP in India? Not a chance I would hire him as a Systems Professional,
let alone a Security Consultant, until he turned at least 25. Why? No
experience. Experience is the determining factor. And I'm not talking about
InfoSec experience. I am talking about experience working at the lower
levels and showing me that you can succeed. I won't not hire somebody due to
lack of necessary training, if they have a work background that shows they
can learn on the job and take care of business. Those are the kind of people
I want on my team.

Enough venting of my spleen for now :)

tom


> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:15:42 -0500
> From: George Capehart <capegeo () opengroup org>
> Subject: Re: [fw-wiz] RE: present day admin skills
>
> Now, after having covered myself with the above caveat, I will say that
> I enthusiastically and wholeheartedly agree with your position that
> the problem does start at the top and it really does indicate a "rotten
> core" as you so succinctly put it.  And, IMHO, the worst consequence of
> this is the effect it has on the enthusiasm and desire to 
> excel in one's work.  There is no support for that in the kinds of
> organizations you describe and it ends up killing the willingness of people
> to take some initiative and accept some personal responsibility for
"getting >stuff done."  It ends up "dumbing down" the whole organization.
> George Capehart
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