RE: 0x43434343 - talking of money...

["Mike Bailey" <Mike.Bailey () intercept net>]

        Daniele,
         
        What is so wrong with being greedy anyway? I was brought up in the depths of poverty and remember having to 
literally count pennies with my mother (single at that) just to buy gas to get her to work.  I only say this to show 
that I know what it's like to make very little AND because I never want to count pennies again. I spent alot of time 
and effort leaning things that would set me apart from others.  If others don't want to do that then that's their 
choice.  People shouldn't feel sorry for them because they chose a different path. Offer them direction to a better 
life if they want it. If I make 4 times what you do, I do it because I can and I want to and someone else proves that 
because they give me the money.  I can argue that there is no tangible value to knowledge and we should all share what 
we know with others but that's an altuistic ideal and completely goes against the nature of humankind.    
         
        I'm not trying to start a flameware either but why knock the people that take the money others are willing to 
give them..  
         
         
         
         
        -----Original Message----- 
        From: David Maynor [mailto:dave () 0dayspray com] 
        Sent: Sat 11/22/2003 9:00 AM 
        To: Daniele Muscetta 
        Cc: dailydave () lists immunitysec com 
        Subject: Re: [Dailydave] 0x43434343 - talking of money...
        
        

        On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 03:30:55PM +0100, Daniele Muscetta wrote:
        > Do you EVER think to third world countries where 300 bucks a month is a
        > RICH salary ? ...and there are families actually carrying on with that...
        > Do you ever even feel a tiny bit guilty or greedy for desiring so much ?
        >
        No. The research that is done will be used to make several companys
        large sums of money. Why should the people who actually do the work not
        recieve payment for it? Value is a funny thing. The value of something
        is only what people are willing to pay for it. If you want to be
        disgusted, direct this at the market that feels these services are worth
        these sums of money.
        
        > I am just disgusted by your being greedy and just trying to get rich
        > with your research.
        > If you do research for the sake of research.... you should be happy to
        > do it, and that's it!
        > You should not be claiming for money so much !
        > you get compensation already. Those 5K is my wage of TWO months !
        >
        Many people do, then find their research has been taken and put into
        products. Do you support this? I ask becasue you seem to feel
        researchers should get nothing for their effort. Lets apply this to
        another industry, like music. What you are suggesting is similiar to
        musicans recording music for lables but getting nothing for it while the
        labels sell the music to the public.
        
        > Well, I am all in favour of knowing how things can be made more secure,
        > but your research is maily about how to break them, most of the
        > times.... and you even fight with each other about who was able to break
        > it first...
        > Have you ever tried to BUILD something instead ?
        >
        You must be joking. The best way to understand how to make something
        more secure is to break it. Take Aitel for instance: he has written many
        tools, available to the public for free, that help people fox their own
        code and such. Like Spike Proxy.
        
        > I don't mean to raise a flame.
        > I just hope to make someone think with his hearth instead than with his
        > wallet for a minute.
        >
        You are making so many assumptions, mainly that the security industry will
        return the goodwill of researchers.
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