RE: Masters in Information Security/Assurance

[Chuck Taylor <h00k00k () gmail com>]

James,

eh....

I can see what you are saying a little, but let's be real.  Getting
those "high-level" positions takes a little more than a degree.  Don't
get me wrong, if you are competing with the IVY league folks, then sure,
go ahead, but the demand in IT professionals is so great, that a degree
even from a "night-school" will do just fine.  We all know that a degree
means you can finish a program...it is how you progress post-degree that
separates the men from the boys.  Don't get me wrong, I am in no way
offended, since one of my degrees is a "night-school" degree.  I can
tell you that my degree did not get me my job, it simply gave me another
nice credential to put behind my name. I am sure most people who take
the degree are not taking it to land their first job.  They are probably
taking it as career advancement, in which the "night-school" degrees
will do just fine.  

I guess it comes down to what you really want...a big name with a big
college loan to pay off, or a solid degree, even from a "night-school",
that is pretty much paid off by the time you finish.  Work paid for my
degree, but I am pretty confident they would not have given me the money
to pay for a degree at a big name school.  Many people who take the
degrees online take them for their convenience.  Many moms and dads
struggling to work full time and raise families can't stay on-campus and
afford the debt of a big name school degree.  I can hear my wife now if
I stated I was moving on-campus.  LOL!!!

I have been on both sides of the table, hiring and being hired.  No one
has ever said to me, "Where is that school located?"  or "Sorry, your
degree does not measure up."  Any sound job interview for an Information
Assurance position is going to be equivalent with the experience you
have.  I would hire the guy with 5 years of experience and a
"night-school" degree over a Purdue graduate fresh out of college, hands
down, as long as the guy with the experience is worth half as much as he
should be after 5 years.  My best job interview involved a gentlemen
saying to me, "If I look at your resume, I can tell you have the brains.
Now lets see if you know what you said you know on your resume."  I got
the job, but turned it down for various reasons.

My advice is that your school of choice will always be based on where
you are in your life and not on whether degree A is worth more than
degree B.  It is not true that a degree from Purdue or Iowa State is
"always going to win out over "night-school" degrees".  I do have some
advice for you though...  Before you throw blanket statements like this
around, be aware of your audience and the diverse lives of the people
looking for the degree.  I strongly encourage the "night-school" degrees
and can tell you based upon my experience, a degree is only worth the
weight of the person that earned it.

Sorry, all, for the long message.  Please direct all flames
to /dev/null.

D3nw0

On Fri, 2008-05-09 at 15:30 -0600, Nelson, James wrote:
> A degree from a major university with on-campus residency requirements such as Purdue or Iowa State is always going 
> to win out over the "night-school" type degrees. Look for full-time faculty with terminal degrees (Ph.D., J.D., 
> D.Sci.). Schools with part-time, non-terminal degree faculty are seen to be "training" as opposed to "educating". 
> This may be biased and unfair, but it is how the world works. I'm sure many very good people come out of those 
> programs and have successful careers. But, if you want a high-level position, and you want it soon, it helps to have 
> a "name" degree.
>
> As a very viable option, consider an good MBA program supplemented by a CISSP, CISA, or SABSA CSA certificate. My 
> research shows that this is the big dollar combo.
>
> Keep on learning!
>
> Jim
>
> James A. Nelson, Ph.D.
> Chartered Security Architect
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com [listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Deepak Nuli [dnuli () purdue edu]
> Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 1:55 PM
> To: security-basics () securityfocus com
> Subject: Re: Masters in Information Security/Assurance
>
> I am currently pursuing my Interdisciplinary Master's in Information
> Security from Purdue University. It is similar to the MSIA program in
> ISU. Check out the link for more information:
> http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/site/education/graduate_program/ . CERIAS,
> Purdue is considered to be the best research group in the field in US. (
> http://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2008a/080502SpaffordRanking.html ) . If you
> have any specific questions regarding the course let me know and I will
> be glad to answer.
>
> Jon Gucinski wrote:
> > I received my MSIA from Iowa State University in 2005...as a
> > disclaimer, I also did my undergrad there.
> >
> > One of the unique things about their program is their roll-your-own
> > setup.  It's an interdisciplinary program, between the business,
> > political science, computer science, computer engineering, and
> > mathematics departments.  Since everyone has their own objectives, it
> > allowed students to choose their home department and course of study
> > to best suit them, while still getting a core curriculum of general IA
> > topics.  The faculty were mainly excellent.  I do know they offer an
> > online certificate (short of a full masters), if travel is an issue.
> >
> > Before staying at ISU for my grad work, I was also accepted to the
> > MSIA program at Northeastern University in Boston.  Comparing the two
> > programs (at the time), I felt that ISU's had a more developed program
> > that I'd gain more from.
> >
> > In terms of value...that's going to be largely a personal/subjective
> > decision.  For me, I felt that my undergrad work left me poorly
> > prepared for a career in InfoSec.  The in-depth work I did going
> > straight through to the MSIA definitely fixed that.  However, it did
> > put me in a bit of a quandary...my education significantly outstripped
> > my work experience when looking for a job and I feel that it may have
> > scared away some prospective employers.  However, it did intrigue a
> > few as well, and it landed me an excellent job, well in advance of
> > where I thought I'd be at my age.
> >
> > Hope that at least begins to answer your question.  If you've got more
> > specific questions, fire away.
> >
> > -Jon
>
> --
> Deepak Nuli, Master's Information Security
> Center for Education and Research in
> Information Assurance and Security (CERIAS)
> Purdue University
> 765-496-6767 (off), 765-631-1416 (cell)
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/deepaknuli
-- 
Chuck