Security Basics mailing list archives
RE: FAX a virus
From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:24:10 +1100
Sorry Daniel, it does not suffice to state that Fax is digital therefore it must be vulnerable. Please do bring up another case. I am happy to analyse it. As I have stated, scientific process required that you prove a condition. I will happily shoot down any of the theretical conditions that are being suggested however. You can not send digital data through a fax line (computer to computer or not) in order to cause a buffer overflow. Error correction is adaequate to send textual information with a moderate degree of success and few errors. However, the level of white noise rejection is too high to send anything that can result in a buffer overflow. Fuzzing has already been brought up and shown to be the wrong approach. Tiff libray attachs all reqiure direct manipulation of the saved digital data. When sending an image, the scan is converted and reprocessed. So this can not work. Please !!! Prove me wrong ! You state that I am - prove it! Supply some evidence other than stating I am ranting and proive your accusations. I have never stated I am nice and I know I am not diplomatic, but prove me wrong. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Anderson [mailto:dtndan () gmail com] Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2007 12:18 PM To: Craig Wright Cc: Nick Duda; anonymous () email com; security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: Re: FAX a virus Nick, I wouldn't waste my time. Craig seems to want to hear himself rant today. You can tell because he is screaming about FUD, making cracks about who is "professional" and who is not, bringing in lots of nonrelated info, and giving us unnecessary background info, but not useful info like current ITU standards, T.30, T.38, etc. Suffice it to say that FAX has grown up into a digital data protocol, and there are various potential areas that could be explored once you get your head around the fact that a FAX no longer has to involve paper any more and, if it is ever analog, is only analog for the physical bit between the modems (which really doesn't matter one way or the other). While the OP suggested a situation that could not really occur (inject macro type virus over FAX) a variety of buffer overflows (driver, tiff libraries, PDF libraries, etc), etc should be analyzed and not merely declared as "FUD, FUD, FUD". Dan On 3/6/07, Craig Wright <cwright () bdosyd com au> wrote: No, the attach is not against the fax. It is not via the fax comms. It is simply an attack against a cisco over IP that you are assuming. The cisco can not be attacked in the manner you suggest. Please feel free to prove me wrong. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Nick Duda [mailto:nduda () VistaPrint com] Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2007 4:18 AM To: Craig Wright; anonymous () email com <mailto:anonymous () email com> ; security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: RE: FAX a virus Fax machine + Cisco ATA + IP + CallManager = Fax machine Fax machine can = software Fax can be IP/Software based....a possible vector for an attack. ________________________________ From: listbounce () securityfocus com on behalf of Craig Wright Sent: Fri 3/2/2007 11:51 PM To: anonymous () email com; security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: RE: FAX a virus FAX! There is NO UDP/IP port. NO TCP/IP port. No IP Address. FAX is not IP based. Not theory at all. FUD! Craig ________________________________ From: listbounce () securityfocus com <mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com> on behalf of anonymous () email com Sent: Fri 2/03/2007 6:31 AM To: security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: Re: FAX a virus Perhaps something along these lines: Dependant on resolving the phone number to an IP address of course, but once that information is found either through social engineering or voip probes you could use nmap to find which port is working as the fax reciever then attempt to determine the type of fax machine and from there if you knew assembly could *possibly (if the fax machine allowed remote firmware upgrades) rewrite the firmware of the machine itself but a more practical method would be to temporarily store information in the buffer of the fax machine (this would cause garbage to be printed for one thing which would be a big annoyance). And from what you have described from your setup the software itself may be vulnerable to memory bounds checks etc. You would want to research the software using lists such as this if you are truely afraid of vulnerabilities in your fax application. Again this is more theoretical then practical but you get the idea. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- This list is sponsored by: BigFix If your IT fails, you're out of business - or worse. Arm your enterprise with BigFix, the single converged IT security and operations engine. BigFix enables continuous discovery, assessment, remediation, and enforcement for complex and distributed IT environments in real-time from a single console. Think what's next. 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Current thread:
- RE: FAX a virus, (continued)
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- RE: FAX a virus Nick Duda (Mar 06)
- RE: FAX a virus- a PS Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 02)
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- FUD, risk and videotape... Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- Re: FAX a virus wesley (Mar 06)
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 07)
- Message not available
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 07)
- Message not available
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 07)
- RE: FAX a virus Scott Ramsdell (Mar 07)
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 07)
- Re: FAX a virus - THREAD IS NOW CLOSED Kelly Martin (Mar 07)
- RE: FAX a virus Scott Ramsdell (Mar 07)
- Message not available
- RE: FAX a virus Craig Wright (Mar 07)